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Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

This is to discuss all prophecy and other interest. Debates can get heated, please remember to keep them civil.

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Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby westoncromwell » Sun May 12, 2013 1:57 pm

What is the general opinion on this subject especially as 2014-2015 has a peculiar incidence of Blood Red Moon Eclipses that co-incide with the Jewish Feasts and many say might be significant, especially as such events have preceded important events in previous Jewish History.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun May 12, 2013 3:08 pm

People who "guarantee" that the tetrad heralds the 2nd Coming are being foolish date-setters. But on the other hand, considering the conjunction of the previous two tetrads with the formation of the State of Israel in the late 40s and the re-taking of Jerusalem in 1967, Israel-centered world events certainly bear very close watching during the next 2-3 years.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby Kurt J. » Sun May 12, 2013 10:45 pm

I agree with Frank.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Mon May 13, 2013 12:18 am

I agree with you also Frank - if we are looking at 3.5 years than it would almost seem not enough time remaining - one thing that still is on the horizon is the AoD standing in the Holy place and a 3rd temple if there indeed will be a third temple
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon May 13, 2013 12:24 am

Well, speaking purely theoretically, IF the 2nd Coming were to occur at Yom Teurah of 2017, then the Abomination of Desolation could be at Purim of 2014, somewhere around mid- to late February 2014, and that would fit the 3.5 years very nicely. But that's only speaking theoretically, mind you.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby Kurt J. » Mon May 13, 2013 1:47 am

I don't want to rehash an old discussion, but another possibility is that the AOD is the long desolation beginning with the one described by Jesus in Mt 23, seen in the destruction of the temple and made complete with the building of the dome of the rock over/near the holy place. The 1260 days /3.5 years is interpreted as a day for a year per Dan 9, and culminates in Israel regaining control of the temple mount in 1967. I still believe this to be the most likely interpretation, but I am open to the 3.5 literal years as well.

I just think with the beast empire gaining control in the region as it has and with us approaching 70 years from 1947/48 as pointed out by defiant, I am ready and watching for the Lord's return EVERY Yom Teruah.

We should remember some of Christ's other warnings, such as his return will be as it was in the days of Noah - pretty much 'business as usual' up until the moment the rain began.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby PsyRamius » Tue May 14, 2013 3:11 pm

I look at what actually happened on the previous two in the 20th century, to see what I think I can expect from these.

As I see it several things happened at the same time, any one, or all, could have been what the sign was pointing to. Here is my list.

A.) Israel was openly attacked by its neighbors.
B.) Despite the odds, it won victory.
C.) It's boarders changed.

A.) Could line up with the AoD in the temple (or on the mount) followed quickly by Jacobs trouble and the sacking of Jerusalem (Attack).
B.) Could line up this time with Micheal standing aside (the restrainer). This time there is no victory, so A.) and B.) could be tied together.

C.) Could be the signing of the "Covenant with many", and another change in Israels boarders, this time handing over land, (Joel 3) and not the other way around.

I tend to lean towards C, with the focus being on "change in boarders". Despite my personal opinion that sooner is better and that I would rather see 3 1/2 years not 7, and that the Jubilee dates point to a closer 2016-17 return. I fully expect that there is still to be a signing of a "covenant with many" that lasts 7 years, and that part of the abomination of the abomination of desolation is the fact it happens during a Jubilee.

That's my 2c.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby gilgali » Thu May 16, 2013 11:09 am

Here are what I consider some of the relevant facts concerning these things:

The previous two festival-aligned tetrads occured in conjunction with Jerusalem. Most people tend to correlate the first tetrad with Israel declaration of statehood in 48, but this occured prior to the festival terad; but during the first tetrad this occured:

http://bio.bwbs.de/bwbs_biografie/Israe ... B1182.html

So we have during the first festival-aligned blood moons the twice declaration of Jerusalem as capital of Israel in defiance of the UN; note the article ends "Not until the 1967 Six-Day-War all of Jerusalem will come under Israeli control, a fact which changed little about its controversial status in international affairs" which is interesting because this brings us to the second tetrad in which June 7, 1967 control of Jerusalem returned to Israel.

If these things are significant then this shows a pattern which begins with a declaration of Jerusalem as capital of Israel (49-50), and return of control of Jerusalem to Israel (67-68), and culminating with final Jerusalem event in 14-15.

This gets more interesting when one takes into account that Isaac Newton interpreted the Weeks prophecy as indicating not one, but TWO commands to return Jerusalem, the first command beginning a 62-Week countdown to the first coming, the second command beginning a 7-Week (49 year) countdown to the second coming.

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them, and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it." Observations chapter X

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1 ... tions.html


It's beyond dispute that control of Jerusalem returned to Israel on June 7, 1967, and that there was a command given that day to this end. Now if this is the command Newton was predicting then that means all we need to do is count 49 cycles of 360-days :

"The antient solar years of the eastern nations consisted of 12 months, and every month of 30 days: and hence came the division of a circle into 360 degrees. This year seems to be used by Moses in his history of the Flood, and by John in the Apocalypse, where a time, times and half a time, 42 months and 1260 days, are put equipollent."

"All nations, before the just length of the solar year was known, reckoned months by the course of the moon, and years by the return of winter and summer, spring and autumn; and in making calendars for their festivals, they reckoned thirty days to a lunar month, and twelve lunar months to a year, taking the nearest round numbers, whence came the division of the ecliptic into 360 degrees."


and when we do that, it brings us out spot on Yom Kippur of 2015. Right in the middle of the final festival-aligned tetrad. And as we understand, Yom Kippur is fulfilled in the culmination of the second coming. So basically I have Newton saying "Look for a command to return Jerusalem to the Jews, then count from there the last cycle of 7 and you'll come out on the second coming." If I do that, it comes out exactly on Yom Kippur (which information is just recently been revealed to most of us) just as the second coming is biblically taught to occur. Plus there are festival-aligned tetrads firing off at the same time.

So this all looks like RED ALERT territory to me. Now, I know a lot of people will say, "But this can't be because the way I interpret prophecy there isn't enough time for a 7-year this, and a something other that" but my response is, the facts are the facts; I'm not going to ignore Isaac Newton shooting prophetic arrows through festival-aligning tetrads to bullseye what is known as JUDGMENT DAY (Yom Kippur) and neither should anyone else. Try not to get too attached to your interpretations and expectations to the point it blinds you to real information.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby Dolph » Thu May 16, 2013 2:39 pm

gilgali, I agree with you that this is HUGE!! Keep in mind that God used Newton, the greatest scientist of all time, in the natural in revealing natural MYSTERIES. What a perfect vessel to use in revealing the physical return of our Lord!!!

Also, when Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 Weeks prophesy, he addressed it to "thy people and the HOLY CITY" which is again JERUSALEM.

Can you make this harmonize with Judah Ben Samuel's prophesy pointing to 2017?? Perhaps it will take two or three years to evangelize the Jews from around the world and set up the new government of Israel and to realize the Jubilee?
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Thu May 16, 2013 9:34 pm

gilgali

Just some additional info not suggesting anything one way or the other

Not only is it exactly 49 years (1 Jubilee the 50th year which begins on Yom Kippur when we enter the 121st Jubilee) - From June 7 - 1967 to Yom Kippur 2015 is also the first day of the 121st Jubilee. The Jubilee begins on YK

Additionally it is 2550 days (1260 + 1290) from Sept 29th 2008 which was on the eve of Yom Terah 2008 the day the world collapsed financially and is still today on the edge of complete collapse.

On another note the first day of Tabernacles Sept 29th it is exactly 70 biblical years to the day Julius Streicher the NAZI was hung Oct 1 1946 - Julius is the NAZI who screamed just before being hung - Purim 1946 Purim 1946

This is also the end of the first seven year cycle (Shmita) which began Sept 29 - 2008 which is a 28 year cycle which began on the stock market crash Sept 29 - 2008 - the seven years end on eve of YK Sept 22 - 2015

It is also the day that the Ark rested on My Ararat in the seventh month on the seventeenth day of the month.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby LPZho » Sun May 19, 2013 11:09 pm

No, no, no, look here: http://jesusmessiah.wordpress.com/2008/ ... 2014-2015/.

The tetrads follow the events, except for the one moon in april 67. They follow, they come after.

And why is the comet Ison attended by Mars - http://waitingforison.wordpress.com/september-2013/?

Because Mars is the God of war. It heralds the coming of the messiah ben David, the warrior king.

It is the sign of the son of man, and will follow armageddon.

Jesus will indeed return like a thief in the night, for no one has eyes to see.

God bless you all and best of luck.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby gilgali » Mon May 20, 2013 9:23 am

LPZho wrote:No, no, no, look here: http://jesusmessiah.wordpress.com/2008/ ... 2014-2015/.

The tetrads follow the events, except for the one moon in april 67. They follow, they come after.


That depends on what events you're correlating them with, and this would only constitute a hypothesis. It looks to me that if these are significant in some way, then it is because of events occuring during the actual succession of the four eclipses- the Six Day War and return of Jerusalem during the 67-68 tetrad giving strong indication that the event is during the tetrad, and not before/after it. June 7, 1967 seems to be the fulcrum event here, especially given the interpretation of the Weeks prophecy with a command to return Jerusalem starting the countdown to the second coming. Looking at events during the first tetrad of the three and there is a double proclamation of Jerusalem as capital of Israel (though control would not return until 67) so I am going to still hypothesize these are Jerusalem-centric events. Since the countdown ends on Yom Kippur in 2015, then I would hypothesize that the final tetrad signifies the coming judgment of Jerusalem; the precise timing beginning Sept 14, 2015 and ending Oct 5, 2015.

If this is the case, then that means the King of Babylon will come with all of his host either Dec 12 of this year 2013, or Jan 1 of 2015 (being the 10th of the 10th respectively)

But if we go by your hypothesis, then shouldn't you be putting more emphasis on 2013 since this is the year before the final tetrad eclipses begin? If the tetrads follow the events, then 2014-15 would follow but you make mention of 2015 as if the event takes place during the tetrad instead of before it.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby LPZho » Mon May 20, 2013 11:09 am

The website with 2015 in it shows the tetrads follow the events. The comet Ison is coming this fall, 2013. So this year is when I believe the end arrives, before the comet.

I think the rebirth of Israel the more likely event to be associated with the tetrad that followed. It is far more significant than the assertion of Jerusalem as the capital, the city being covered by the ensuing tetrad. And only one moon nips in before the old city was regained in 1967, so the vast bulk of the period of the tetrad comes after.

While Isaac Newton's take may be compelling, that the time between the recapture of Jerusalem and the day of atonement at the end of this tetrad should be a jubilee cycle isn't surprising, thus are the notches on God's timepiece. Again, it may be compelling support of Newton's thesis, but its also just about the most likely time period one might expect regardless.

Perhaps Yom kippur 2015 could be the day expressed in Zechariah:

[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
[12] And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
[13] The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
[14] All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

It takes time for people to understand and reconcile themselves to what has gone forth.

Perhaps all the nations will go up to Jerusalem for the first time under the last blood moon on the feast of tabernacles in 2015:

[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The tetrad may describe the wake, the return to the lord, the establishment of new Jerusalem. And the fiftieth year is of course the Jubilee, the year of redemption, a very fitting end/new beginning.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby gilgali » Mon May 20, 2013 12:31 pm

LPZho wrote:The website with 2015 in it shows the tetrads follow the events.


All the website is doing is proposing a hypothesis. A hypothesis takes the data and arranges it into a model which makes predictions; if we find its precitions to be accurate, then it's said to have predictive power and becomes a theory. But before that it's just a hypothesis and that website is just proposing a hypothesis. It could be correlating the tetrads with the right events, and then again it may not be. I'd argue that it isn't. For one I think we all agree that the June 7 event is unquestionably tetrad-related; and it happens during the course of the four eclipses. This argues that events occurring during the course of the four eclipses are what are being correlated with the tetrads. For two I don't see any reason why we would correlate events outside of the tetrads with the tetrads- there is literally no correlation at all (the events aren't occuring in coinciding relation to the tetrads at all).

That website focuses on a couple of events but what if the tetrads are correlating with several events? For instance, here are some events that occur in relation to the first two tetrads (note I'm not saying these events have signficance or that they don't; but that we may be looking at more complexity than just "the rebirth of Israel":

April 13, 1949 - The Feast of Passover - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
July 20, 1949 - Israel–Syria Mixed Armistice Commission (ISMAC) signed.
October 7, 1949 - The Feast of Ingathering - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
January 4, 1950 - Israeli Prime Minister Ben Gurion declares Jerusalem Israel’s capital city in spite of international protests, ignoring the fact that the eastern part of the city has been annexed by Jordan after the end of the Israeli-Arab War of 1949. He also defies the United Nations’ resolution of 29 November 1947 whereby the Holy City of three world religions is supposed to be placed under UN administration.

January 23, 1950 - The Israeli Parliament, the Knesset, declares Jerusalem the country’s capital city. Nevertheless, many nations, the USA among them, establish their embassies in Tel Aviv, even though the Israeli Foreign Ministry has also been located in Jerusalem since 1953. It is not until the 1967 Six Day War that all of Jerusalem will come under Israeli control, a fact which changed little about its controversial status in international affairs.
April 2, 1950 - The Feast of Passover - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
May 25 , 1950 - Tripartite Declaration issued by the United States, Great Britain and France.
September 26, 1950 - The Feast of Ingathering - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")

April 24, 1967 - The Feast of Passover - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
June 5-10, 1967 - Six Day War

June 7, 1967 - IDF paratroopers advance through the Old City toward the Temple Mount and the Western Wall, bringing Jerusalem’s holiest site under Jewish control for the first time in 2000 years.
At 8:30 in the morning on June 7 the paratroopers therefore launched a three-pronged assault – one battalion attacked August Victoria Hill from Israeli-held Mount Scopus, another battalion attacked August Victoria by climbing up the valley between it and the Old City, and a third battalion, led by Gur himself drove around the Old City walls to break into the city via St. Stephen’s Gate. Arriving at the gate, Gur’s halftrack plowed through and into the Old City. Gur’s two other battalions, their missions complete, followed him in, where they found little resistance. Gur himself made for the holiest site in Judaism, the Temple Mount, where the biblical Jewish temples stood. When he got there he famously radioed to his commanders, "The Temple Mount is in our hands."

June 27, 1967 - The Israeli Knesset extends Israel’s legal and administrative jurisdiction to all of Jerusalem, and expands the city’s municipal borders.
October 18, 1967 - The Feast of Ingathering - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
November 22, 1967 - United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
April 13, 1968 - The Feast of Passover - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")
May 1, 1968, Israeli ambassador to the UN expressed Israel's position to the Security Council: "My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."
October 6, 1968 - The Feast of Ingathering - total lunar eclipse ("blood red moon")


The comet Ison is coming this fall, 2013. So this year is when I believe the end arrives, before the comet.


I do note that Ison is due at the gates of the 10th month this year. It could be relevant to the coming of the King of Babylon in my book.

I think the rebirth of Israel the more likely event to be associated with the tetrad that followed. It is far more significant than the assertion of Jerusalem as the capital, the city being covered by the ensuing tetrad.


It's not questioning the significance of 47-48, it's just not directly correlating the tetrads with those years (and really, why/how should it when they're not in the same grouping of years?)

And only one moon nips in before the old city was regained in 1967, so the vast bulk of the period of the tetrad comes after.


True but again we may be looking at more than just one specific event; perhaps all of the events in the above are being "spotlighted" by the tetrads? Not that it must be, but could be.

While Isaac Newton's take may be compelling, that the time between the recapture of Jerusalem and the day of atonement at the end of this tetrad should be a jubilee cycle isn't surprising, thus are the notches on God's timepiece. Again, it may be compelling support of Newton's thesis, but its also just about the most likely time period one might expect regardless.


No, you've got the benefit of hindsight here, Newton didn't. The difference (and it is HUGE) between your (and mine and everyone else's) hypothesis and his is that his has been successfully demonstrating predictive power (end of Jewish exile, return of Jerusalem) and so is now a theory. Even though you and I can look back at history and say "It's not surprising it turned out that way" Newton wasn't doing that at all- he was talking about the future. It's actually the fact that his theory is demonstrating predictive power that is causing me to note the tetrads in a significant way- they're pretty much highlighting what looks to be the last Jubilee cycle of the new covenant age.

Perhaps Yom kippur 2015 could be the day expressed in Zechariah:

[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
[12] And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
[13] The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
[14] All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.


That will definitely occur at the second coming in the 7th month. When you say "the end arrives before the comet" exactly what are you refering to if you don't mind me asking.

Perhaps all the nations will go up to Jerusalem for the first time under the last blood moon on the feast of tabernacles in 2015:

[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Hopefully.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby LPZho » Mon May 20, 2013 1:44 pm

When you say "the end arrives before the comet" exactly what are you refering to if you don't mind me asking.


I believe it to be the sign of the son of man coming with the clouds after the tribulation of those days from Matt.24. It does say that immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun and moon shall be darkened, not before or during.

I believe the end is imminent, that cicumstances in the middle East will shortly spiral out of control leading to a jihad against Israel, and the nations all about marching on her, marching to Armageddon and their doom. It will be very precipitous, even shocking, perhaps initiated by an Israeli strike on the iranian nuclear facilities, and so Christ shall return like a thief in the night, unexpectedly.

I understand the hypothesis part, and of course you're right, one can't be certain of the events. Though the tetrads do seem to mostly comprise the aftermath of the most significant events, and so that they would naturally contain other events of significance is not surprising. The importance of the rebirth of the country in the prophetic scheme in which I personally believe tends to make me think the first tetrad refers to the nation, the second to the capital.

Something that may be a point of interest is that there was evidently a lunar eclipse on second passover 2013(for the unclean who could not celebrate the first (numbers 9:6-13)), and will be another on passover 2016. Makes the net potentially much broader.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon May 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Be very careful about making assumptions that can't be proven from the Scriptures. We should watch carefully, certainly, but making unfounded predictions is unwise.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby westoncromwell » Sun May 26, 2013 4:57 pm

Gentlemen,
I have done a little more research in the blood moon eclipse area and note the following. I would welcome your comments accordingly.

1. Tetrad 2014-2015
-------------------------

15 April 2014 = Jewish passover + Total Lunar Eclipse
8 Oct 2014 = Feast of Tabernacles= Total Lunar Eclipse
20 March 2014 = Solar Eclipse = Jewish New Year
4 April 2015 = Jewish Passover = Total Lunar Eclipse
13 Sept 2015 = Solar Eclipse = Feast of Trumpets
28 Sep 2015= Total Lunar Eclipse = Feast of Tabernacles
Commentators say that Rapture should be Feast of Trumpets but 2015 (pretrib rapture ?) + 7 = 2022 or 2014 +7 = 2021
What is your interpretation ?

2 Mark: 13:28-31
---------------------

Learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see these things happening, know that He is near — at the door! I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away
Now concerning that day or hour no one knows — neither the angels in heaven nor the Son — except the Father
Question :
= No One Knows the Day or Hour BUT TO KNOW THE YEAR ? Is this permitted ?
= 1948 plus 70-80 years (a generation)so might be 2021or 2022

3 Joel 2:31
--------------

The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and awe- inspiring Day of the Lord comes
Total lunar eclipse 26 May 2021
BUT
Festival of Weeks 17 May 2021
Total Lunar Eclipse May 16 2022
BUT
Festival of Weeks June 05 2022
Total Lunar eclipse Nov 08 2022
BUT
Feast of Tabernacles Oct 2022
Question :
Second Coming ?.... any correlation possible due to date discrepancies? ..any theories. In the tetrad the eclipses coincide with the Jewish feasts
Would appreciate input.

Many thanks
Brian
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby Berean » Sun May 26, 2013 8:54 pm

Hi guys, I'm a little late to the discussion. Just one quick question. Will these eclipses be sighted in Jerusalem?
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Sun May 26, 2013 9:34 pm

Berean - here are some good links to the Tetrads - the NASA site should be able to tell you where the eclipses will cover the earth or globe

http://www.sonoma.edu/users/v/vegalu/es ... ons-BW.pdf

http://jesusmessiah.wordpress.com/2008/ ... 2014-2015/

This below site is the Lunar one you want

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEdecade/LEdecade2011.html
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby justinshannon » Sun May 26, 2013 9:36 pm

Is it possible that the moons are the end time fulfillment of Joel 2?
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun May 26, 2013 9:53 pm

The blood moon tetrads and any other normal astronomical eclipse are not the event being referenced at Joel 2, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Isaiah 13, or Revelation's Sixth Seal. (They're all the same event, BTW.) Consider that a lunar, blood-moon eclipse can only occur at the full moon, when the moon and the sun are on opposite sides of the Earth from each other. And then consider that a solar eclipse can only occur at the new moon, when the moon is between the earth and the sun. Yet Joel 2, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Isaiah 13, and Revelation's Sixth Seal all describe something like a lunar eclipse AND a solar eclipse both occurring at the same time. Under the normal laws of physics, this should be impossible.

There are only two ways this event could happen:

1. Some foreign object moves between the sun and the earth during a full moon, cutting off the sun and simultaneously causing a lunar eclipse.

2. YHVH simply disregards the laws of physics (that He created, by the way) and switches off the sun, although that would not necessarily cause the moon to turn blood-red, unless He also breaks the laws of physics in that regard as well, which He very well could.

There indeed is a historical precedence that the blood moon tetrad that is coming could definitely herald a very important event that is connected with Israel, just like happened in the late 40s, and again in the late 60s. But whether or not that important event is actually the 2nd Coming...well, I would be very careful about joining the chorus of boys who cried wolf and were then publicly humiliated, as we have seen happen so many, many, many times over the years.

Just speaking for myself, I am watching VERY carefully during the days of the tetrad for some historically important event. But you won't find this dude proclaiming the 2nd Coming until the signs that Yeshua and Paul gave us (at Matthew 24:15 and II Thessalonians 2:3-4, respectively) have been fulfilled.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby westoncromwell » Mon May 27, 2013 4:47 pm

Many thanks Frank for your clear and concise answer. Could you elucidate on the 1948 plus 70-80 years issue. I imagine this is and open and shut case that all will be fulfilled by 2028 at the very latest (1948 plus 80) or is there more to it than meets the eye ?

kind regards
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Mon May 27, 2013 5:38 pm

As Frank said one must be very careful - I have been watching 2015 to 2017 but may be completely wrong as that date seems to be running out of time for Christs return if we count the tribulation. But I do believe if it is not the end of something it could possibly be the beginning of something. Notice how many time 7 shows up in the below dates 78 - 97 - 17 - 47 - 67 which may well be absolutely nothing but coincidences.

1948 is a good starting point no doubt but so is Nov 29th - 1947 the year of the UN decree which is 2520 biblical years from the Cyrus decree in 536 BC.

So is Dec 2 -1917 which also was the 24th day of Chisleu on the Hebrew calendar when the British took Jerusalem away from the Ottoman Turks. We are told by Haggai that this day the 24th day of the 9th month that from that day there blessings would begin and history tells us that to be true regards the return to the land. It would be from that day that the land would slowly begin to bear fruit and it is from that day that General Allen-by (the Turks understood this as Allah-be) which allowed the Jews to begin their return along with the Balfour Declaration - 2017 to 1917 =100 years

Hag 2:18 ‘From this day on, from this twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, give careful thought to the day when the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid. Give careful thought:
Hag 2:19 Is there yet any seed left in the barn? Until now, the vine and the fig tree, the pomegranate and the olive tree have not borne fruit. “ ‘From this day on I will bless you

Than we have Aug 29th - 1897 the year Theordore Herzl held the First Zionist Congress in Bassel Switzerland and wrote in his diary - (today I have created the homeland for the Jewish people - if not in 5 years than certainly in 50 years) 1897 to 1947 = 50 years - Also from 1897 to when the first temple was destroyed in 587 BC is again 2520 biblical years - 1897 to 2017 is 120 years - thinking Noah and also the 120 Jubilees which is 6000 years

Than we also have in 1878 a Jew named Yehoshua Stampfer who walked F/ Hungary to Israel at 17 years of age and created Petah Tikva it was the first renewed settlement at the time - From 606 BC when Babylon took Israel into captivity to 1878 and this first major settlement is 2520 biblical years

And than we also have 1967 when the Jews reclaimed the Temple Mount which is 50 years to 2017

One would think that these are many signs - but until a prophecy passes it is only than that we can know for certain

Does it mean Christ will than return - one could argue that but we are warned not to date set but we are also warned and instructed to watch and not be foolish but wise like the 5 wise virgins - but I like many others feel that the Tetrads will turn out to be very prophetic but the question is what - Christs return - Tribulation maybe - a rebuilt Temple maybe - The Tetrads in 1948 to 49 produced the state of Israel - the ones in 1966 to 67 reclaimed Temple Mount and the ones in 2014 to 15 may well produce a re-built temple although this is simply a guesstimate

Mt 24:42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Mt 24:42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
Mt 24:43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.
Mt 24:44 So you also must be ready.....................

Lk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray.....................
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon May 27, 2013 7:06 pm

westoncromwell wrote:Many thanks Frank for your clear and concise answer. Could you elucidate on the 1948 plus 70-80 years issue. I imagine this is and open and shut case that all will be fulfilled by 2028 at the very latest (1948 plus 80) or is there more to it than meets the eye?
Well, you've actually caught me a little off guard with your question. I do realize that 2028 is close to the 2000-year anniversary of Yeshua's 1st Coming, so that's another time period that would bear close watching if the 2nd Coming hasn't happened by that time, but beyond that I don't really have anything concrete about that time frame. Could you clarify what you mean by the "70-80 years issue"?
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Mon May 27, 2013 9:23 pm

Likely a Ref to Ps 90:10
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon May 27, 2013 9:40 pm

ROCK SOLID wrote:Likely a Ref to Ps 90:10
Oh, OK, thanks, Willard. If that's true, then from reading Psalm 90 (it's been a while, I'll admit), the 70-80 years comes across as simply referring to the lifespan of our bodies. True, Moses lived to 120, but the account at the end of Deuteronomy reads as if it was unusual by that time. The days of 900+-year lifespans were long gone after the Earth's environment was ransacked by the Flood.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Mon May 27, 2013 10:37 pm

I have often wondered (thinking out loud) if there may not be a connection with Ps 90:10 and the re-claiming of temple mount in 1967 - the generation that took the mount that day have for a large part died out - but we still have a few like Peres and Sharon hanging in there from the war of Independence - what I am saying is maybe because the one eyed Jack (Dayan) gave control of temple mount back to the Waqif God is in a way repeating the 40 year delay for the bad spy report we seen in the Exodus by having them die off before the tribulation or the millennium comes about

Jos 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey

Nu 1:3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon May 27, 2013 11:05 pm

ROCK SOLID wrote:I have often wondered (thinking out loud) if there may not be a connection with Ps 90:10 and the re-claiming of temple mount in 1967 - the generation that took the mount that day have for a large part died out - but we still have a few like Peres and Sharon hanging in there from the war of Independence - what I am saying is maybe because the one eyed Jack (Dayan) gave control of temple mount back to the Waqif God is in a way repeating the 40 year delay for the bad spy report we seen in the Exodus by having them die off before the tribulation or the millennium comes about

Jos 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the desert forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land that he had solemnly promised their fathers to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey

Nu 1:3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army
I don't know anywhere near enough about it to say one way or the other with any strong certainty. I am of the personal opinion, however, that Yeshua's remark that "this generation will not pass away..." was in reference to the Temple's destruction. Don't forget, the four disciples asked Him three questions at Matthew 24:3, the first of which was when the Temple would be destroyed as Yeshua prophesied in verse 2. Yeshua's answers to the three questions are scattered throughout Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, so there has to be a certain about of process-of-elimination in figuring out how to sort it all out. Since the generation alive at the time most certainly was (mostly) still alive at the time of the Temple's destruction, it just seems reasonable that "this generation will not pass away" was in reference to that event.
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby ROCK SOLID » Mon May 27, 2013 11:57 pm

Mt 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Mt 24:30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Mt 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
Mt 24:33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
Mt 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened

The phrase this generation comes after a lot of last day signs which have not yet happened - sun darkened - Son of Man coming on the clouds - and the lesson of the fig tree coming to fruition - but I also agree that there is prophecy in Matt 24:2 about 70 AD like the stones thrown down - I see 24:3 onward mainly as in progress and yet to be fulfilled
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Re: Tetrads and Blood Red Moons

Postby FactFinderFrank » Tue May 28, 2013 1:05 am

That's very true, but you might want to take a look at Luke 21:12-24. Notice how various phrases that we are familiar with from Matthew 24 seem to get shifted to a time frame revolving around the 1st Century's destruction of the temple. I'm not advocating preterism by any means, because I am a staunch futurist, but we have to keep the context in mind. Yeshua predicted the destruction of the Temple, and then his disciples asked Him when would it happen, as well as also asking what would be the sign of His "coming". Between Matthew/Mark (which pretty much echo each other) and Luke, things get kind of mixed up in His answer(s). This is one of the reasons for the rise of preterism, because some see His statement that the foretold events would be in fulfillment of "everything that is written", then they see Him clearly discussing the 70 AD destruction of the Temple and try to make it all fit. But then, the fact that Revelation wasn't written until after the Temple's destruction precludes that statement ("...in fulfillment of everything that is written") from applying to the 1st Century. Yet some of the things Yeshua predicted most certainly did apply to the 1st Century.

For instance, consider the seeming folly of telling your audience to flee the city "when you see it surrounded". Wouldn't that send your audience right into the hands of the enemy army outside the city? But when Cestius Gallus, the legate of Syria, marched on Jerusalem with legion XII Fulminata in 66 AD at the Battle of Beth Horon, which was the major beginning of the Jewish revolt that resulted in the Temple's destruction, the Jews defeated Gallus and forced his army to withdraw, giving the students of Yeshua an opportunity to do exactly what He had instructed, to flee into the countryside and get away from Jerusalem. It probably seemed foolish to the non-students of Yeshua to flee after what looked like a great victory, but the students of Yeshua knew what was to happen not long afterward, from His teachings.

Then, a few years later, Vespasian, who was eventually to become Caesar, surrounded Jerusalem with five legions, a huge army for that time. Vespasian was called to Rome to become Caesar after the Empire was left in disarray by Nero's follies, so the Roman legions withdrew and suspended operations against the Jewish revolt. This was another opportunity for the followers of Yeshua to heed His command and "get out of Dodge". Then, in 70 AD, with Roman politics somewhat settled, the legions turned their attention fully to the Jewish revolt and crushed it. So Yeshua's instructions to flee into the countryside when the city was surrounded, while seemingly foolish, turned out to be exactly the right move.

My point in mentioning all this is that the Olivet Discourse, as it is written down, could be seen as being in somewhat disarray from our human point of view. Again, as I mentioned, this is largely what led to the rise of Preterism, out of a misguided effort to make some sense of that "disarray". The largest factor that helps in sorting it out is Revelation's authorship taking place after the Temple's destruction in 70 AD. The things in Revelation that we can see also mentioned in the Olivet Discourse can be safely taken as yet-future because of Revelation's late authorship.

We know, for example, that the Romans did not ceremonially desecrate the Temple, such as what Antiochus Epiphanes did to it. So the Abomination of Desolation that Yeshua mentioned can be reasonably taken as yet future. The confrontation between the Two Witnesses and the beast in Revelation 11 also gives weight to this line of reasoning, so that is one example of Revelation supporting the futurism of at least part of the Olivet Discourse.

But the other things...well, there's room for doubt, at the least. For instance, are the instructions in Matthew 24 that those who are in "Judea" should flee without hesitation intended for those who witness the Abomination of Desolation in the Tribulation, or were they for the people living in actual "Judea" before that generation passed away in the 1st Century? Because of the way that Luke ordered Yeshua's words in his account, it's a hard question to answer, one that has been debated countless times without a definitive answer that I am aware of.

So I find myself forced to discard anything that could possibly be ruled out, not wanting to gamble on watching for something that may or may not even apply to our lifetime. I would rather err on the side of caution.

Passages such as Ezekiel 38-39 also add some clarity, since that is an invasion that has clearly never happened yet, plus we also have at least some material from Daniel that can safely been seen as yet-future.

The challenge is selecting which passages can be safely retained as yet future, and then arranging them in a way that provides a synthesis of some semblance of chronological order. That's another reason that I would prefer to leave things out rather than include things that don't belong. Trying to include things that don't belong will be like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle with pieces that don't belong. They'll make it impossible. But if we have a jigsaw puzzle with pieces that were inadvertently left out, then we can at least find a place for the pieces that we do have.

Anyway, I've gone on much longer than I had planned on, and you've got better things to do with your time than to read my ramblings, so I'll just leave it at that.

In closing, I'll just say that, for the moment, if we're going to talk about items of timing such as "this generation", then I'm far more interested in the Jubilee cycle and how it relates to Yeshua's role as the Kinsman-Redeemer of the title deed of the Earth that we see in the scroll in Revelation 5-6, and how that Jubilee cycle might be connected with the blood moon tetrad coming up. Yeshua paid the redemption price, so He has acquired the right to take back his "family's" land, but then how does the delay between His resurrection and the present tie in with Torah law concerning land redemption and the Jubilee cycle?

Finding a good understanding of such things might yield something amazing.
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