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Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

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Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby James » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Cathy Cobbs (8 Apr 2013)
"The case for a pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Rosh Hashanah, 2013"



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Since I started studying Bible prophecy in the late 90's, I have always believed in a pretribulation rapture that will occur on Rosh Hashanah. Jesus fulfilled the four spring Jewish festivals with His First Coming on the day of the festival. He died on Passover. He was buried on Unlevened Bread. He rose on First Fruits. He gave us the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. It makes perfect sense that He will fulfill the fall festivals on the day of the festival as well, with the Rapture on Rosh Hashanah, His Second Coming on Yom Kippur, and the Millennial Kingdom beginning on Tabernacles.

The meaning of Rosh Hashanah lines up perfectly with the Rapture. It is known as "the day of the awakening blast", "the day the books are opened", "the day the gates of heaven open", "the last trump", and "no one knows the day or hour". Because Rosh Hashanah is the only festival that begins on the first day of the month, no one knows ahead of time on which day it will begin because it can't be determined until two witnesses see the new moon. When Jesus said that "no one knows the day or hour", He wasn't saying that we can't know when the Rapture will occur. He was indicating that the Rapture will be on Rosh Hashanah.

Another theme of Rosh Hashanah is the Jewish wedding ceremony. In this tradition, after the betrothal the groom says that he is going to his father's house to prepare a place for his bride (John 14:1-3). He then prepares a wedding chamber in his father's house that must be approved by his father. If anyone asks him the date of his wedding, he says "no one knows except my father" (Mark 13:32, Matthew 24:36). The bride, not knowing the day of the wedding, must be ready at any time. The groom could be gone for as long as two years. On the day of the wedding, the groom goes to the bride's house and calls for her (he doesn't go into the house). They then retire to the wedding chamber for seven days. Jesus left almost 2000 years ago. He will come for his bride on Rosh Hashanah and take us to heaven where we will remain in the wedding chamber for seven years before we return with him. When Jesus said that "no one knows except His Father", He was indicating that the Rapture will be on Rosh Hashanah.

I may be wrong about the Rapture occurring on Rosh Hashanah. If it occurs on any other day, I will be happy to admit that I was wrong. I don't understand why so many people refuse to admit that their views on when the Tribulation began are wrong despite mounting evidence against them. If the Tribulation began in 2008 or 2009, where are the two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem or the 144,000 Jewish evangelists? Where is the war, famine, and pestilence killing over one billion people? I thought that surely, once their mid-tribulation date passed, they would admit that they were mistaken. When was the Jewish temple desecrated by the Antichrist? When did the Antichrist declare himself God? When were the two witnesses murdered and resurrected? When did many in Israel flee to Petra? Not only do those holding this view refuse to admit that they are wrong, some use their discredited theory to claim that the pretribulation rapture has been disproved.

Every year at Rosh Hashanah, I am very hopeful that this will be the year and disappointed if it proves not to be. I then resign myself to another year on this earth. After Rosh Hashanah last year, I watched a video recommended by someone on fivedoves that gives me great hope for 2013. I strongly recommend this video by Scott Clarke (http://www.youtube.com/eternalrhythmflow) titled "The Most Logical RAPTURE Theory on YouTube, PERIOD!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW17ZP0s ... 98&index=4). All of the reasons that have been true for the last 15 years that I have been watching for the Rapture are still true. Scott Clarke's video points out two additional strong factors pointing to 2013: a tetrad in 2014-2015 and a Revelation 12 sign in September, 2017.

In the last 2000 years, there have only been seven tetrads that fell on Jewish festivals. A tetrad is two lunar eclipses (blood red moons) in consecutive years. In 2014 and 2015, lunar eclipses occur on Passover and Tabernacles. The last two Jewish tetrads occurred in 1967-68 (when Israel gained control of Jerusalem) and 1949-1950 (right after Israel was reborn). It is reasonable to expect that something major will happen to Israel in the very near future. The next tetrad after the one in 2014-2015 will not occur for 500 years.

Scott Clarke discovered a sign in the heavens that exactly matches the description in Revelation 12:1-2. The sign occurs on September 23, 2017 (on Rosh Hashanah). Revelation 12 describes events that occur at mid tribulation. Counting back 3.5 years, the tribulation would begin around March 2014. If you believe (as I do), that the Rapture will occur on Rosh Hashanah and that it will occur before the tribulation, then the Rapture would occur on Rosh Hashanah, 2013. I am very hopeful.

The case for a pretribulation Rapture, continued"



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In my last post, I explained why I think the Rapture will occur on Rosh Hashanah. I didn't elaborate on why I believe that the Rapture is pretribulation or why I believe that the Rapture will occur soon because I wanted to keep the post reasonably short. I will do so now.

I believe that the Rapture will be pretribulation because:
1. Seven years in heaven coincides with the seven days in the wedding chamber in the Jewish wedding ceremony.
2. Why would Jesus allow his bride to be beaten up right before He takes her to the wedding?
3. The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24-27) and the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:3-7). It is for the Jews, not the church.
4. Isaiah 26:20 promises that we can hide until indignation runs its course.
5. Jesus promises that we can escape all of these things (Luke 21:36).
6. Jesus promises to keep us from the hour of testing (Revelation 3:10).
7. Paul describes the Rapture as "the blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). Who hopes for tribulation?
8. Paul says that the Rapture should comfort us (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
9. Christians have always suffered persecution but in the past, they had to persevere so that they could maintain the church for the future. This no longer applies at the Rapture which occurs at the end of the Church Age.
10. The Rapture could not be post-tribulation because, if so, there would be no believers left in human bodies to populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom.

I believe that the Rapture will occur soon because:
1. We are near the end of the 6th day (6000 years) of man. The Millennial Kingdom will the the 7th day. For God, a day is like 1000 years (2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4).
2. The signs listed by Jesus in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 are all in place including an increase in false prophets, wars, famines, earthquakes, persecution of Christians, apostasy and lawlessness.
3. It is now just like the days of Noah and Lot (Matthew 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-28, 2 Timothy 3:1-5) with an increase in selfishness, lawlessness, arrogance, hedonism, and sexual immorality. Who would have believed the current acceptance of homosexual marriage just a few years ago?
4. The Church Age is nearing the end of its 2nd day (2000 years). Hosea 5:15-6:2 indicates that Jesus will return to His place (heaven) until Israel acknowledges her guilt but after two days (2000 years) he will revive them and raise them up on the 3rd day (the Millennial Kingdom).
5. The biggest sign is Israel. Israel was restored as a nation in 1948 and regained control of Jerusalem in 1967. Before this, the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming could not have happened.
6. All of the prerequisites for the tribulation are now in place. Nuclear or biological weapons are needed to kill over one billion people in a war. Television and satellites are needed for the entire world to witness the murder of the two witnesses. Microchips and computers are needed for the mark of the beast to control the economy. Before these recent inventions, the prophecies of Revelation could not have been fulfilled. There is no temple in Jerusalem, but everything is in place to build it quickly.
7. Jesus says that once the signs begin, this generation will not pass away until all of these things take place (Luke 21:28-32, Matthew 24:32-35). The signs began in 1948 or at least by 1967. The people who witnessed this are getting very old.

OK, Nobody knows the day or the Hour but what about the Month and year ? :?:

I am believing in the Doctrine of Imminece as taught by Chuck Missler between now and Rosh Hashana 2013 ! :!:

( disclaimer: If this theory doe's not come to pass I reserve the right to change my mind without being called a false Prophet ) :wink:
Last edited by James on Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
James
 

 

Re: Pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Roshashana 201

Postby James » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:44 pm

Doctrine of Imminence as taught by Chuck Missler
1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvvNL4WsHo
2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKT6GVleBFk


Scottie explains the current prophetic signs of the end of the church age! ( Scotty will not commit to the year just the Rosh Hashana )
REVEALED!! 3 AMAZING Reasons for the Prophetic Blood Moon Tetrads!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaOMatlVP6Q

memo: Astrology is Satan's counter fit Astronomy !!!
separate the two... :wink:

also; this guy believes it's is Rosh Hashana 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k9qYt1D7No

discernment disclosure subject to change !
James
 

Re: Pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Roshashana 201

Postby James » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:35 am

The Rapture is Imminent!! Wake Up! Warn Others!! - The following is part of a complete study on Rosh Hashanah, and why this Jewish Feast is prophetically next inline to be fulfilled by Yeshua/Jesus Himself VERY SOON! (1 Thess 4:16-18)
Rosh Hashanah And Its Hidden Secret - No Man Knows The Day Or Hour :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0QT_Ar4dY
James
 

Re: Pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Roshashana 201

Postby James » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:38 am

Mark Blitz is probably one of the Greatest Teachers of the Lord and the hidden messages found through out the Bible and understanding of The Feast of our Lord.

May this series bless each and everyone of you and draw you closer to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Get personal with the Lord, time is VERY short. :wink:

Mark Blitz : Session 2 - Feast of Trumpets / Rosh Hashana (Part1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRMOssYW8
James
 

Re: Pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Roshashana 201

Postby James » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:44 am

Rapture - Rosh Hashanah-Feast of Trumpets
Chuck Missler and Perry Stone - Playlist :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRMOssYW8
James
 

Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:58 pm

OK, James, you said the other day that you’re not here to debate and that you’re simply posting what interests you. That is certainly fair enough, and you certainly have just as much right to do so as anybody else does. Image

Having said that, I would also point out that everybody else has that same right (within reasonable bounds, of course, as the moderators see fit), so I am going to do the same thing and post what interests me. And right now, what interests me is to answer the information in this thread concerning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

I am not interested in "throwing stones" or knocking you down, or anything along those lines. I am only interested in pursuing Truth, with a capital "T", whatever it may be, and regardless of whether or not it means that I have to make adjustments to my beliefs (which I have done on numerous occasions).

Before I go any further, however, I would like you to know that I spent the majority of my life as a staunch Pre-Tribber. As little as 5 years ago, you could never have convinced me that there was any other viable option. And as Kurt pointed out a few days ago, most of the people here (with a few exceptions) were Pre-Tribbers at one point or another. You described yourself as “old” recently, so if that’s the case, then, with your life experience, you should have a good understanding of how difficult it is to get anybody to change their religious beliefs. It’s an extremely rare and difficult occurrence.

Yet, most of the people here (including myself) made the conscious decision at one point to turn away from Pre-Trib and to embrace another Rapture position. If I was in your shoes, I would find that information very sobering. It would certainly cause me to want to know, at least, why so many people made that change.

You are interested in Truth, right? I mean, which is more important to you: defending a favorite position, whether it be about the Rapture or anything else, or embracing and defending the Truth?

Now, if your position, Pre-Trib, really is the Truth, then there should be nothing to fear, right? A little re-examining and testing should only serve to strengthen your beliefs and make them more solid than ever.

But if it turned out that something else was the Truth, then wouldn’t you want to be aware of it, so that you could adjust your life accordingly? So we’re back to the question of a moment ago, why did so many people in this forum abandon Pre-Trib in favor of something else?
Last edited by FactFinderFrank on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:13 pm

The "Doctrine of Imminence" exposed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4qbKoJVTVQ
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:19 pm

In addition, regarding the Doctrine of Imminence, Yeshua foretold Peter's death at John 21:18-19. So the followers of Yeshua knew that Peter would experience death. That automatically means that the Rapture could NOT have occurred prior to Peter's death, otherwise Peter could never experience the death Yeshua prophesied for him. This was general knowledge throughout the community of believers.

Peter's death was in the mid-60's CE (or AD), AFTER most of the New Testament was written. Therefore, when the New Testament writers penned such verses as Titus 2:13, knowing that Peter's death must precede the Rapture, they could not have written those verses with the concept of "imminence" in mind.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm

James wrote:I believe that the Rapture will be pretribulation because:
1. Seven years in heaven coincides with the seven days in the wedding chamber in the Jewish wedding ceremony.
There are many variations on this aspect of Jewish weddings, just as there are many wedding customs variations in any other culture. But nowhere in Scripture is there ever a command or a statement that the bride and the bridegroom are to spend seven days in the chamber. Moreover, Deuteronomy 24:5 commands that newlyweds are to have a whole YEAR to "please" each other. So this is an argument that cannot be Scripturally defended.
James wrote:2. Why would Jesus allow his bride to be beaten up right before He takes her to the wedding?
Because there are many among the "bride" who are not really the Bride. The purpose of the Tribulation is to expose the genuine Bride from the fakes. Who will remain faithful to the point of death, even as the Bridegroom remained faithful to us, to the point of His death? All ten of the virgins in Matthew 13 were waiting for the bridegroom, there were no unbelievers among them. But only half of them made the cut.
James wrote:3. The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24-27) and the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:3-7). It is for the Jews, not the church.
It is not for the Jews. It is for Israel. And as Paul brilliantly explains at Romans 11, we the "Church" are being grafted into the olive tree that is Israel. We are part of Israel.

(This is not replacement theology. Replacement theology says the Church IS Israel. That is patently false. Rather, the Church is PART of Israel, an entirely different proposition.)
James wrote:4. Isaiah 26:20 promises that we can hide until indignation runs its course.
Notice that it says, "enter into YOUR chambers", not "MY chambers". Therefore, it is referring to our earthly dwellings instead of Yeshua's heavenly dwelling.
James wrote:5. Jesus promises that we can escape all of these things (Luke 21:36).
"These things" is referring to the Day of the Lord. The true believers, the Bride will indeed escape the Day of the Lord. We will be Raptured before the wrath of YHVH is poured out. But at what point does that wrath begin?

Joel 2:31 - The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of YHVH comes.
James wrote:6. Jesus promises to keep us from the hour of testing (Revelation 3:10).
If this quote is to be applied to all believers, then why do we not also equally apply the warnings that Yeshua issued in Revelation 2-3 as well? Are we so arrogant as to believe that we are immune from the warnings issued by Yeshua while expecting Him to pour out blessings, like some heavenly Grandpa?
James wrote:7. Paul describes the Rapture as "the blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). Who hopes for tribulation?
Paul does indeed refer to "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour, Yeshua Hamashiach" as the "blessed hope", but the "glorious appearing" is in reference to the 2nd Coming at the end of the Tribulation.
James wrote:8. Paul says that the Rapture should comfort us (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
Yes, it should. But that proves nothing about its timing in relation to other events.
James wrote:9. Christians have always suffered persecution but in the past, they had to persevere so that they could maintain the church for the future. This no longer applies at the Rapture which occurs at the end of the Church Age.
Wait, so you're suggesting that we are "immune" from persecution????? Image Have you read any news reports out of the Middle East lately, about the martyring and expulsion of Christians? More Christians have died in the last 100 years than in the last 2000 years combined! You might want to take a look at John 16:33: "In the world ye shall have tribulation."
James wrote:10. The Rapture could not be post-tribulation because, if so, there would be no believers left in human bodies to populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom.
The problem here is with the mistaken assumption that all unbelievers are automatically condemned at Matthew 25. Jesus’ exact words in Matthew 25:32 are “all nations” will be gathered before Him. Most Pre-Tribbers take this to mean every single person on the entire planet Earth will stand before Jesus at this point to receive their judgment of either being welcomed into the Kingdom or being cast out into “outer darkness” and “gnashing of teeth”. But what does “all nations” mean? Is there any indication in the Bible about exactly what “all nations” actually means? There are numerous uses throughout the Bible of the phrase “all nations.” Zechariah 14:2 says “I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it.” Using a pre-tribber’s understanding of the same words in Matthew 25, this would mean that every man, woman, and child on the earth will be gathered together to “fight” against Jerusalem at Armageddon. Is that really what pre-tribbers wish to assert, that children will be involved in Armageddon? In addition, look at the following quotes:

Isaiah 2:2-4 – “In the last days the mountain of YHVH’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of YHVH, to the house of the Elohim of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of YHVH from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.”

Who is the bolded part speaking of if not unbelievers who have entered the Millennial Kingdom? Most Pre-tribbers would quickly argue (as I once did) that this is talking about unbelievers who are born later on during the already-established Kingdom. But then, where did the “swords” and “spears” come from? If all weapons are banned during the Millennial Kingdom, why are these people having to “beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks”? They have apparently entered the Kingdom with this equipment and are now having to destroy it.

Isaiah 14:1-2 – “YHVH will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Foreigners will join them and unite with the house of Jacob. Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in YHVH’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.”

Again, who is the bolded part speaking of if not unbelievers who have entered the Millennial Kingdom? Do pre-tribbers wish to suggest that gentile believers will be Israel’s slaves during the Millennium? I didn’t think so.

One more:

Zechariah 14:16 – “Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, YHVH Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.”

Who are these survivors?

Pre-Tribbers must answer who all these people are. For the Pre-Trib view to succeed, it must harmonize ALL of the Scriptures including these. The suggestion that Matthew 25 is a problem for Post-Trib is based on a presupposition of a Pre-Trib Rapture. It fails to account for the passages quoted here. The new Gentiles born during the Millennium and who subsequently participate in the Revelation 20 Gog/Magog will come from 2 groups: (1) They will come from children around the world at the time of the 2nd Coming who have not yet reached the age of accountability and who are consequently allowed to enter the Millennial Kingdom as full-fledged citizens, and (2) from survivors from “all the nations” who enter the Kingdom as servants of Israel, as we saw in the Isaiah and Zechariah passages above. Matthew 25 is no problem for Post-Trib.
James wrote:I believe that the Rapture will occur soon because:
1. We are near the end of the 6th day (6000 years) of man. The Millennial Kingdom will the the 7th day. For God, a day is like 1000 years (2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4).
This may be very true. Image I agree with this.
James wrote:2. The signs listed by Jesus in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 are all in place including an increase in false prophets, wars, famines, earthquakes, persecution of Christians, apostasy and lawlessness.
Things certainly do seem to be moving in that direction.
James wrote:3. It is now just like the days of Noah and Lot (Matthew 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-28, 2 Timothy 3:1-5) with an increase in selfishness, lawlessness, arrogance, hedonism, and sexual immorality. Who would have believed the current acceptance of homosexual marriage just a few years ago?
We're getting close, but we're not quite there yet. There is reason to believe that the fallen angels will appear and manifest themselves in a terrible deception on the whole world. You can watch more about it right here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Iiy_Mydu0
James wrote:4. The Church Age is nearing the end of its 2nd day (2000 years). Hosea 5:15-6:2 indicates that Jesus will return to His place (heaven) until Israel acknowledges her guilt but after two days (2000 years) he will revive them and raise them up on the 3rd day (the Millennial Kingdom).
That is one possible view, yes. Image
James wrote:5. The biggest sign is Israel. Israel was restored as a nation in 1948 and regained control of Jerusalem in 1967. Before this, the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming could not have happened.
Do you realize you just contradicted the Doctrine of Imminence? And Israel has not been restored. The only thing restored is Judah. That's why they're called "Jews". The ten northern tribes have never returned since Sennacherib exiled them in 722 BC.
James wrote:6. All of the prerequisites for the tribulation are now in place. Nuclear or biological weapons are needed to kill over one billion people in a war. Television and satellites are needed for the entire world to witness the murder of the two witnesses. Microchips and computers are needed for the mark of the beast to control the economy. Before these recent inventions, the prophecies of Revelation could not have been fulfilled. There is no temple in Jerusalem, but everything is in place to build it quickly.
What if somebody suggested to you that the Temple doesn't have to be rebuilt? Image We might be even closer than you realized.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:17 pm

I Thessalonians 4:16-5:2
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that this day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

So the Rapture begins the Day of the Lord. And when does this day arrive?

Joel 2:31
The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.

Isaiah 13:9-10
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming (as in, it has not arrived yet). For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; the sun will be dark when it rises and the moon will not shed its light.

Yeshua sets the timing for this Day of the Lord/Rapture by describing and quoting exactly these same celestial events:

Matthew 24:29-31
But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Now, witness the parallels:

I Thessalonians 4:16
Matthew 24:30-31

For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

with the voice of the archangel,
and He will send forth His angels

and with the trumpet of God
with a great trumpet

We who are alive & remain will be caught up
and they wil gather together His elect

Revelation 6:12-17
I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

...and THEN the Day of the Lord wrath begins. Not before.

I wish the Rapture was Pre-Trib. I certainly don't want to face the Antichrist. But I recognize that we were never promised freedom from persecution.


John 16:33 - "In this world, you WILL have tribulation."

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:21 pm

By the way, if we can change the Talmudic, false name of "Rosh Hashana" to its Scriptural name that was given by YHVH, "Yom Teurah" ("The Blowing" or "Feast/Festival of Trumpets"), then I will agree 100% that this is most likely the time of the Rapture/2nd Coming. Image
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby James » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:32 pm

FactFinderFrank wrote:By the way, if we can change the Talmudic, false name of "Rosh Hashana" to its Scriptural name that was given by YHVH, "Yom Teurah" ("The Blowing" or "Feast/Festival of Trumpets"), then I will agree 100% that this is most likely the time of the Rapture/2nd Coming. Image
:wink:
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:28 pm

I hope you don't feel like I'm throwing stones, James. I have no desire to overwhelm you or intimidate you or shout you down or anything similar. As I said earlier, I'm only interested in Truth, with a capital "T". If there is anything I have posted in this thread that is false or mistaken information, then I would welcome correction. I do not have a monopoly on the Truth, and I do not have all the answers. All I have is the information that I have been able to gather thus far, as I have posted above. You are more than welcome to correct it as needed. Thanks. Image
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby hooray88 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:21 am

James,

Frank wrote: Before I go any further, however, I would like you to know that I spent the majority of my life as a staunch Pre-Tribber. As little as 5 years ago, you could never have convinced me that there was any other viable option. And as Kurt pointed out a few days ago, most of the people here (with a few exceptions) were Pre-Tribbers at one point or another. You described yourself as “old” recently, so if that’s the case, then, with your life experience, you should have a good understanding of how difficult it is to get anybody to change their religious beliefs. It’s an extremely rare and difficult occurrence


This is an honest and true statement by a man who I have come to know as genuine. Of course, this is not the only true statement by him, but I thought I would expand what Frank said with some of my observations on today's "culture" of Christianity.

The Body of Christ has been deceived, James. I have found pretty much ALL the famous and well promoted teachers are to be "false teachers." We have been fed not only that which are not true, but also which are their "Propaganda" in order to deceive the mass and lead them astray. It is all because of the agenda promoted for the New World Order. "Pre-Trib" and the "Imminent Rapture" have been widely "promoted" in a ridiculously well financed and suspiciously and meticulously organized way. You can see in the way the book, "Left Behind," series was promoted .. , like it was to overwhelm the Christian community. It has become "POLITICALLY CORRECT" to believe in Pre-Trib and Imminent Rapture. It has become a "Culture." Please consider this series of article: http://deceptionfree.wordpress.com

Teachers and pastors who taught otherwise were not only ignored, but also persecuted. That is why you see "NO ONE" who is teaching or preaching Post-Trib or MId-Trib on TV or in big conferences. Christian TVs are all influenced by the same power that runs everything in this world. Why do you think they need to suppress the other teaching? There is something really wrong here.

Yeshua has warned us:

    Luke 6:26 NKJV
    Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

There is not supposed to be any "culture" among the people of YHVH, other than the teaching of Torah and our Messiah, who is the Torah incarnate. That is a worldly thing.

    Romans 12:1-2
    I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Like Frank said, those who believe in Pre-Trib rapture are not going to be prepared for the Last Days, which will be brutal and full of deceptions that will be much worse than now. Whether we are going to be taken up during or after the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 years), or whether before or after the Wrath, it does not matter too much. But, it matters greatly if you are deceived and controlled by those who are absolutely rebelling against the Almighty God of all the Universe, YHVH, be sure to know that you would be going down with them.

I know it is very difficult, especially if you have trusted those teachers and come to espouse the idea. I could not believe what I was learning when I found out about their true agenda. But, there is nothing rewarding like finally realizing the "truth." I am praying for you.


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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby dan13l » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:16 am

I guess I should just give up on getting any of you to stop believing the Catholic/Protestant view of the Gap and Preterism and Futurism (there are excellent videos on this by Walter Veith, but I cannot seem to make copies of their URLs to put them here), so I will say that the temple does not need to be rebuilt. FFF alluded to this, but didn't spell it out. The temple does not need to be rebuilt because the body of Christ--the body of believers--is the temple now. There is no need for a physical building, since Jesus was the last, perfect sacrifice. When Jesus walked out of the temple building before his crucifixion, he said that he was leaving it desolate. That is pretty clear. God took his Shekinah glory, left the temple, stayed for a while on the Mount of Olives and then left, just as he did with the first temple.

You are all looking towards Jerusalem for the fulfilling of prophecy that will occur in the church--among the believers. You are all looking outside when you should be looking inside.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby gilgali » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:18 pm

James wrote:Since I started studying Bible prophecy in the late 90's, I have always believed in a pretribulation rapture that will occur on Rosh Hashanah. Jesus fulfilled the four spring Jewish festivals with His First Coming on the day of the festival. He died on Passover. He was buried on Unlevened Bread. He rose on First Fruits. He gave us the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. It makes perfect sense that He will fulfill the fall festivals on the day of the festival as well, with the Rapture on Rosh Hashanah, His Second Coming on Yom Kippur, and the Millennial Kingdom beginning on Tabernacles.


The established pattern of the fulfilment of the Spring festivals shows that there is no "break" between the days being fulfilled. That means that however these things are fulfilled, they are fulfilled in unbroken succession so it's impossible that there is any delay- much less a seven-year delay- between the fulfilling of Trumpets on 7-1 and the fulfilling of Atonement on 7-10 except the 10 days between them. If the rapture occurs on 7-1 in our year 2013, then the second coming will occur 9 days later.

That the "rapture" occurs at the parousia of the Lord is plainly taught in the very "rapture verses":

1Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming(parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Anyone understanding "the parousia of the Lord" as anything other than the second coming is simply wrong. There are only a handful of verses speaking of the "parousia" and they are all quite clear as to be signifying the "day of Christ"- Paul himself teaching that this "bright" event destroys the wicked:

2Th 2:8 whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming(parousia):

Moreover we're taught that this accompanies the resurrection:

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

and this happens on "the last day" which is 7-22:

Ne 8:18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So the rapture will occur on 7-22 along with the resurrection of them "asleep in Christ", and the parousia of the Lord and the destruction of the wicked. Anyone have any idea of what hour this will occur?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But this won't and can't happen this year because we've had no parousia of "that Wicked" yet, with "all signs and power" and this occurs on 10-10 and runs its course through 5-9 with the burning of the temple of the Lord by fire.

At any rate, again, because the culmination pattern is being provided by God to show all festivals are fulfilled without delay (in the Spring half) then there's just no possible way that 7-1 can be fulfilled without 7-10 through 7-22 being fulfilled in the same month following. The only way this could possibly happen is if God causes confusion by disregarding patterns He Himself is establishing to teach us things. But this can't be the case either because God doesn't author confusion.

The 7-1 event correlates to be fulfilled in the battle of Jericho- note the priests having "seven trumpets of jubilee" (the word "rams horn" is the same as the word "jubilee" which is the jubile trumpet; and they have 7 of them- 7 trumpets). This is why Jesus makes His appearence:

Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

This is a picture of the elect coming to judge "that great city" with the sword of the Lord; whatever your "Babylon" is being intepreted as, this is what happens to it on 7-1 through the elect "the Spirit of His mouth" and upon the "great city"

Another theme of Rosh Hashanah is the Jewish wedding ceremony.


I'd advise against building or supporting any biblical doctrines with extra-biblical information: most especially the "traditions" of men: Jesus didn't seem to care for the practice; condemning it several times.

I may be wrong about the Rapture occurring on Rosh Hashanah. If it occurs on any other day, I will be happy to admit that I was wrong. I don't understand why so many people refuse to admit that their views on when the Tribulation began are wrong despite mounting evidence against them. If the Tribulation began in 2008 or 2009, where are the two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem or the 144,000 Jewish evangelists? Where is the war, famine, and pestilence killing over one billion people? I thought that surely, once their mid-tribulation date passed, they would admit that they were mistaken. When was the Jewish temple desecrated by the Antichrist? When did the Antichrist declare himself God? When were the two witnesses murdered and resurrected? When did many in Israel flee to Petra?


It could also be the case that you're expecting a lot of things to play out in a way that you're not going to see. I'm sure at the first advent there were a lot of Jews asking, If this is the time, then where is the mighty army, where is the bolts of lightning driving the Romans into the sea? Where is the Mighty One immersing the nations in fire? Why have not the children of Jacob coming sailing to our shores by swan-powered White Ships?

I strongly recommend this video by Scott Clarke (http://www.youtube.com/eternalrhythmflow) titled "The Most Logical RAPTURE Theory on YouTube, PERIOD!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW17ZP0s ... 98&index=4).


I don't think I was able to count a single "logical" thing he proposed. Everything he said he's reading into the text.

a tetrad in 2014-2015 - In the last 2000 years, there have only been seven tetrads that fell on Jewish festivals. A tetrad is two lunar eclipses (blood red moons) in consecutive years. In 2014 and 2015, lunar eclipses occur on Passover and Tabernacles. The last two Jewish tetrads occurred in 1967-68 (when Israel gained control of Jerusalem) and 1949-1950 (right after Israel was reborn). It is reasonable to expect that something major will happen to Israel in the very near future. The next tetrad after the one in 2014-2015 will not occur for 500 years.


That does indeed look to be significant.

a Revelation 12 sign in September, 2017.


That is completely insignificant.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby gilgali » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:54 pm

First I ask the question: if there has never, ever once in all of the bible ever been shown in any way people disappearing out of the world in order to escape some trial or tribulation; why would anyone possibley think any of these passages are ever talking about people disappearing out of the world? None of these verses have anything to do with an "evacuation from the world" the very concept itself is completely and utterly absent from the entirety of the bible.

I believe that the Rapture will be pretribulation because:


Paul plainly teaches the rapture occurs at the parousia of the Lord. Look at all of the other instances of "parousia" and tell me what event they are talking about. Paul says the event is bright and destroys the wicked in flaming fire of vengeance.

1. Seven years in heaven coincides with the seven days in the wedding chamber in the Jewish wedding ceremony.


Traditions of men are worthless.

2. Why would Jesus allow his bride to be beaten up right before He takes her to the wedding?


To be purified and clothed in white. To be made ready. What kind of question is this anyway? Why would Jesus allow suffering at all? Who could actually read the bible and ask this question?

3. The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24-27) and the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:3-7). It is for the Jews, not the church.


It's for the church. The purpose is the removal of "all that offends" from out of the church. All of the "false Christians" will be taken out of the body of Christ, thus prapring the Bride and making her ready to receive the Lord.

4. Isaiah 26:20 promises that we can hide until indignation runs its course.


We hide in the clift of the Rock (which is to say, in the knowledge of Christ, the true Rock)

Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

5. Jesus promises that we can escape all of these things (Luke 21:36).


We escape through knowledge of Christ:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped <668> the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped <668> from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped <668> the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Note none of these people were "taken out of the world" in any carnal sense.

6. Jesus promises to keep us from the hour of testing (Revelation 3:10).


The word "keep" is meaning to "keep" as in a "keeper" of a door, meaning to "guard"- the exact opposite of "take out of the world"; to "guard" them in the world:

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

7. Paul describes the Rapture as "the blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). Who hopes for tribulation?


The blessed hope is the second coming, the day of Christ; which every Christian should hope for.

8. Paul says that the Rapture should comfort us (1 Thessalonians 4:18).


The knowledge that we will ever be with the Lord should comfort us.

9. Christians have always suffered persecution but in the past, they had to persevere so that they could maintain the church for the future. This no longer applies at the Rapture which occurs at the end of the Church Age.


No disagreement there.

10. The Rapture could not be post-tribulation because, if so, there would be no believers left in human bodies to populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom.


That statement is completely nonsensical. What does it even mean?
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby gilgali » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:08 pm

dan13l wrote:I guess I should just give up


Remember that all you're really doing is planting the seeds, it's God who "gives the increase" right? So don't lose heart when it seems you're not "getting through"; the truth is you're not going to see any "results" from your seed planting until God sends the waters onto the seed, which then cause it to grow and to bloom in its proper season. It's just flowers in the garden; and an unwatered seed cannot help but remain unbloomed, and a watered seed cannot help but bloom.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby dan13l » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:03 pm

Thank you, Gilgali, for the encouragement (you may regret that! ;-) ) And, so, encouraged, let me summarize a few things that Veith said (I'll frame it a bit differently than he did though): Think about this possibility: What if the whole new nation of Israel in the Middle East were made up by a Satanic world power in order to trick the Christians? Most of the "Jews" that arrived at this new nation (Israel, 1948) came from an area between Persia and Russia, and were converted to Judaism in relatively modern times. They speak Yiddish, which is a Germanic language, but uses the Hebrew alphabet. So, through the pushing of the king of the south against the counterfeit king of the north (the true King of the North being Christ), prophecy seems to be in the process of being fulfilled and the Christians will be deceived into believing that, and will accept that it is all on the physical plane between earthly armies, etc. and not that it is in the spiritual realm and has to do with spiritual Israel, powers of darkness, the counterfeit Christ and the real Christ. This is where hooray and I seem to agree--there is a cabal that owes its allegiance to Satan that is running things behind the scenes to bring things about on a worldwide scale. All of the leaders of both sides ("north" and "south" of the Middle East conflicts) sit at table and have tea together--i.e., they are all members of the Illuminati (are 33rd degree Freemasons). Balfour and Napoleon and all the original actors that divided up the ME in the beginning were high-ranking masons. And all of the church hierarchies, both RC and Protestant are in the Freemasons--as are the Muslims. (Why do you think there are masonic orders who wear fez's (Elf Khurafeh)?) The only difference is which book they have sitting on their altar (Bible for some, Koran for others, or the Tenach for still others) for the lower-lever dupes (the "Initiates"). I know it sounds outlandish and that is probably intentional--so they can say--"Come on, you don't believe all that crazy conspiracy stuff do you?" Okay, don't believe it. But you might at least check a few things out. And you will find that there are just too many coincidences to be coincidences.

Okay, back to my cage. One last thing--You might want to start checking all this out while you can and before you aren't allowed access to the Internet, or it is censored, or people who know too much are suddenly disappeared (and we won't have been raptured (or committed suicide (or heart attacked), the government's favorite excuse for inconvenient people like Foster (and Breitbart) suddenly dying).
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:24 pm

dan13l wrote:FFF alluded to this, but didn't spell it out.
Just to clarify since you brought it up, Image

What I was referring to is that I don't think it's necessary for the actual temple building to be constructed for the Abomination of Desolation to occur.

Now, having said that, I have a different view of the "temple" than you do, dan13l. I base this on Revelation 11, where John speaks of a physical location during the Tribulation whose size can be measured using linear quantities. That is something that would be impossible with the Body of Christ temple of which you speak.

However, I don't wish to go so far as to outright disagree with you, because I'm not fully settled on it, and I can see that your idea has merit. So while I lean toward a physical temple location, I'm going to keep your approach in the back of my mind as an alternate possibility. (Kurt J has a similar concept to yours, by the way.)

But to get back to the temple not needing to be rebuilt: Yeshua said, "When you SEE the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place..." I can't help wondering, how could anybody "see" the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place if the temple's walls are in place and blocking the view? Image (Yes, yes, I know, we could use modern camera technology, and that is indeed something to bear in mind.)

It seems like a very strong possibility that the "Dome of the Tablets" is where the Ark of the Covenant once sat, so it's possible that maybe the Antichrist could simply walk into the Dome of the Tablets and do whatever he's going to do to commit the Abomination, without an actual Temple needing to be in place. Image I also notice in Matthew 24:15 that Yeshua makes no reference to a temple being rebuilt. Why wouldn't he have warned His followers that "when you see the temple being re-built, it's time to get out of town." That would certainly give His followers more warning. But instead, He jumps straight to the Abomination of Desolation, as if there would be no prior warning before it occurs.

At the same time, however, Revelation 11 certainly does mention a "temple" in existence, so I also recognize that a temple made well be built after all. If there is a temple rebuilt, I would also suggest that the antichrist himself might build it, for the specific purpose of desecrating it, perhaps even over the vehement protests of the Jews. If we do see a temple being rebuilt, regardless, then you better get ready.

So, in the end, I'm not dogmatic about any of this. I can see any one of multiple possibilities being true. I'm simply keeping my mind open to all the possibilities unless/until I can truly rule any of them out.

Hope this helps clarify a few things. Image (Although I suspect I've only muddied the waters more than ever...)
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Re: Pretribulation rapture, quite possibly on Roshashana 201

Postby James » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:13 pm

James wrote:Doctrine of Imminence as taught by Chuck Missler
1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvvNL4WsHo
2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKT6GVleBFk


Scottie explains the current prophetic signs of the end of the church age! ( Scotty will not commit to the year just the Rosh Hashana )
REVEALED!! 3 AMAZING Reasons for the Prophetic Blood Moon Tetrads!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaOMatlVP6Q

memo: Astrology is Satan's counter fit Astronomy !!!
separate the two... :wink:

also; this guy believes it's is Rosh Hashana 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k9qYt1D7No

discernment disclosure subject to change !



memo: HumbleHorse has released an update !!!


The AMAZING sign of the Dragon from Rev 12 v 3-4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVBGK8Lic_Q
Published on Jun 3, 2013


(Hanukkah 2017) December 13th 2017

Revelation 12 v 3-4
3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby westoncromwell » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:57 am

Matthew 24:36
No one knows when that day or hour will come —not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father,

I was taught to take the Bible and Jesus quotes in a literal fashion (metaphors etc excluded) therefore if It says NOBODY knows the day or hour, from this I can conclude, possibly two things

1. You may know the month or year
2. but not the day/hour

Now there are alot of clever scholars out there that have trawled this for centuries so possibly,no one knows as God has a variety of options (until the very last of the fullness of the Gentiles comes in)
therefore it could be any date ?

best wishes
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:32 am

Brian, please read these two posts here:

no-man-knows-t1608.html#p16123
&
no-man-knows-t1608.html#p16124

They have very much to do with "no man knows...", and I think you will find them...interesting, to say the least.

Let me know what you think afterward. Image
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby westoncromwell » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:28 pm

Thanks Frank I found those two posts extremely interesting and I thank you for sharing them .

best wishes
Brian
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:40 pm

I'll send you a bill. Image
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby hooray88 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:34 am

Oh, Frank!

Image
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:30 am

What?
Truth is such an inconvenient thing that gets in the way of pet preconceptions. But there's a simple solution - just throw the Bible, linguistics, and logic all in the trash and then everybody can believe whatever they want to and it'll be no problem.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby hooray88 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:12 pm

Never mind . . .

just thought t'was funny that you said you would send him a bill, because you did that to me too. Guess it's your favorite line.

Did you get my check BTW . . . ? Remember, I have sent it by a helicopter?
Image



Sorry. Just being silly . . . need a nap.
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby FactFinderFrank » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Yeah, I got it, but I think the dog ate it....Image
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Re: Pre-Trib Rapture, on Roshashana 2013

Postby cupbearer » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:08 pm

Frank and Horaay, :lol: You two crack me up

I also believe that we don't necessarily need to see an abomination of desolation in a rebuilt temple because I do see the temple as BELIEVERS built up as living stones in Christ.

However, I do believe that God works in the Spiritual and the Physical at the same time. As mentioned earlier I believe the Dome of the Rock is the abomination and it will sit there until the fullness of the Gentiles come in.

Dan thinks.......
Think about this possibility: What if the whole new nation of Israel in the Middle East were made up by a Satanic world power in order to trick the Christians? Most of the "Jews" that arrived at this new nation (Israel, 1948) came from an area between Persia and Russia, and were converted to Judaism in relatively modern times.


I so disagree with that Dan!! As I have pointed out earlier. Even all the Prime Ministers who have ever ruled Israel "First Names" tell the story of Redemption, just as all the patriarchs from Adam to Noah first names tell of Gods plan of Redemption and also the tribes of Israels first names tell the story of redemption. Israel is back in the Land because God brought her back to show the world His Power and Plan, Jesus is coming back to reveal himself!

Here is what their names are and what they mean.

The Beloved = David
Saviour = Moshe
He will Join = Levi
He will redeem = Yigal
Golden Day = Golda
He will laugh = Yitzak
And Comfort = Menachem
He has heard = Shiman
The Son of His right hand = Benjamin
I will be Praised = Ehud (Barak)
Jerusalem – Lion of God = Ariel - (Sharon means Forest – Futile Land)
I will be Praised = Ehud (Olmert)
Son of His right hand = Benjamin - (Netanyahu - Yahweh has given)

If you ADD BENJAMIN NETANYAHUS FULL NAME

The Sentence READS.
The beloved Saviour, He will Join, He will redeem, Golden Day, He will Laugh and comfort, He has heard. The Son of His right hand I will be praised, Jerusalem – (Lion of God) I will Praised. THE SON OF HIS RIGHT HAND, ”YHWH HAS GIVEN”

"In THAT day I will restore DAVID’S fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,

I think it is really interesting that the VERY FIRST Prime Minister of Israel’s name was DAVID!

Also in Genesis
Joseph is a picture type of Jesus and Joseph does not REVEAL himself until the brothers BRING BENJAMIN WITH THEM. In other words The Son of His Right Hand (whom Jesus is) with them. They had to recognize their error or doing away with Joseph and then recognise that he was in fact the Son of the Fathers right hand. The older brother’s being a picture of the patriarchs, Benjamin a picture of the brothers at a later time.

Now Benjamin Netanyahu the present Prime minister is in power and His name means The Son of His Right Hand, YHWH has given.

Today in Israel many are beginning to understand who Jesus is.

Isaiah 62:5 as a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they will never be silent day or night. You who call on the LORD, give yourselves no rest, and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth.


The message is all there!
The Temple and it treasures were made Holy "By the Presence of God" in times past.
Now we who ARE THE TEMPLE and IT TREASURES through Christ are MADE HOLY "By Gods Presence in us". By Cupbearer
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