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There are many variations on this aspect of Jewish weddings, just as there are many wedding customs variations in any other culture. But nowhere in Scripture is there ever a command or a statement that the bride and the bridegroom are to spend seven days in the chamber. Moreover, Deuteronomy 24:5 commands that newlyweds are to have a whole YEAR to "please" each other. So this is an argument that cannot be Scripturally defended.James wrote:I believe that the Rapture will be pretribulation because:
1. Seven years in heaven coincides with the seven days in the wedding chamber in the Jewish wedding ceremony.
Because there are many among the "bride" who are not really the Bride. The purpose of the Tribulation is to expose the genuine Bride from the fakes. Who will remain faithful to the point of death, even as the Bridegroom remained faithful to us, to the point of His death? All ten of the virgins in Matthew 13 were waiting for the bridegroom, there were no unbelievers among them. But only half of them made the cut.James wrote:2. Why would Jesus allow his bride to be beaten up right before He takes her to the wedding?
It is not for the Jews. It is for Israel. And as Paul brilliantly explains at Romans 11, we the "Church" are being grafted into the olive tree that is Israel. We are part of Israel.James wrote:3. The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24-27) and the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:3-7). It is for the Jews, not the church.
Notice that it says, "enter into YOUR chambers", not "MY chambers". Therefore, it is referring to our earthly dwellings instead of Yeshua's heavenly dwelling.James wrote:4. Isaiah 26:20 promises that we can hide until indignation runs its course.
"These things" is referring to the Day of the Lord. The true believers, the Bride will indeed escape the Day of the Lord. We will be Raptured before the wrath of YHVH is poured out. But at what point does that wrath begin?James wrote:5. Jesus promises that we can escape all of these things (Luke 21:36).
If this quote is to be applied to all believers, then why do we not also equally apply the warnings that Yeshua issued in Revelation 2-3 as well? Are we so arrogant as to believe that we are immune from the warnings issued by Yeshua while expecting Him to pour out blessings, like some heavenly Grandpa?James wrote:6. Jesus promises to keep us from the hour of testing (Revelation 3:10).
Paul does indeed refer to "the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour, Yeshua Hamashiach" as the "blessed hope", but the "glorious appearing" is in reference to the 2nd Coming at the end of the Tribulation.James wrote:7. Paul describes the Rapture as "the blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). Who hopes for tribulation?
Yes, it should. But that proves nothing about its timing in relation to other events.James wrote:8. Paul says that the Rapture should comfort us (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
Wait, so you're suggesting that we are "immune" from persecution????? Have you read any news reports out of the Middle East lately, about the martyring and expulsion of Christians? More Christians have died in the last 100 years than in the last 2000 years combined! You might want to take a look at John 16:33: "In the world ye shall have tribulation."James wrote:9. Christians have always suffered persecution but in the past, they had to persevere so that they could maintain the church for the future. This no longer applies at the Rapture which occurs at the end of the Church Age.
The problem here is with the mistaken assumption that all unbelievers are automatically condemned at Matthew 25. Jesus’ exact words in Matthew 25:32 are “all nations” will be gathered before Him. Most Pre-Tribbers take this to mean every single person on the entire planet Earth will stand before Jesus at this point to receive their judgment of either being welcomed into the Kingdom or being cast out into “outer darkness” and “gnashing of teeth”. But what does “all nations” mean? Is there any indication in the Bible about exactly what “all nations” actually means? There are numerous uses throughout the Bible of the phrase “all nations.” Zechariah 14:2 says “I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it.” Using a pre-tribber’s understanding of the same words in Matthew 25, this would mean that every man, woman, and child on the earth will be gathered together to “fight” against Jerusalem at Armageddon. Is that really what pre-tribbers wish to assert, that children will be involved in Armageddon? In addition, look at the following quotes:James wrote:10. The Rapture could not be post-tribulation because, if so, there would be no believers left in human bodies to populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom.
This may be very true. I agree with this.James wrote:I believe that the Rapture will occur soon because:
1. We are near the end of the 6th day (6000 years) of man. The Millennial Kingdom will the the 7th day. For God, a day is like 1000 years (2 Peter 3:8, Psalm 90:4).
Things certainly do seem to be moving in that direction.James wrote:2. The signs listed by Jesus in Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 are all in place including an increase in false prophets, wars, famines, earthquakes, persecution of Christians, apostasy and lawlessness.
We're getting close, but we're not quite there yet. There is reason to believe that the fallen angels will appear and manifest themselves in a terrible deception on the whole world. You can watch more about it right here...James wrote:3. It is now just like the days of Noah and Lot (Matthew 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-28, 2 Timothy 3:1-5) with an increase in selfishness, lawlessness, arrogance, hedonism, and sexual immorality. Who would have believed the current acceptance of homosexual marriage just a few years ago?
That is one possible view, yes.James wrote:4. The Church Age is nearing the end of its 2nd day (2000 years). Hosea 5:15-6:2 indicates that Jesus will return to His place (heaven) until Israel acknowledges her guilt but after two days (2000 years) he will revive them and raise them up on the 3rd day (the Millennial Kingdom).
Do you realize you just contradicted the Doctrine of Imminence? And Israel has not been restored. The only thing restored is Judah. That's why they're called "Jews". The ten northern tribes have never returned since Sennacherib exiled them in 722 BC.James wrote:5. The biggest sign is Israel. Israel was restored as a nation in 1948 and regained control of Jerusalem in 1967. Before this, the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming could not have happened.
What if somebody suggested to you that the Temple doesn't have to be rebuilt? We might be even closer than you realized.James wrote:6. All of the prerequisites for the tribulation are now in place. Nuclear or biological weapons are needed to kill over one billion people in a war. Television and satellites are needed for the entire world to witness the murder of the two witnesses. Microchips and computers are needed for the mark of the beast to control the economy. Before these recent inventions, the prophecies of Revelation could not have been fulfilled. There is no temple in Jerusalem, but everything is in place to build it quickly.
FactFinderFrank wrote:By the way, if we can change the Talmudic, false name of "Rosh Hashana" to its Scriptural name that was given by YHVH, "Yom Teurah" ("The Blowing" or "Feast/Festival of Trumpets"), then I will agree 100% that this is most likely the time of the Rapture/2nd Coming.
Frank wrote: Before I go any further, however, I would like you to know that I spent the majority of my life as a staunch Pre-Tribber. As little as 5 years ago, you could never have convinced me that there was any other viable option. And as Kurt pointed out a few days ago, most of the people here (with a few exceptions) were Pre-Tribbers at one point or another. You described yourself as “old” recently, so if that’s the case, then, with your life experience, you should have a good understanding of how difficult it is to get anybody to change their religious beliefs. It’s an extremely rare and difficult occurrence
James wrote:Since I started studying Bible prophecy in the late 90's, I have always believed in a pretribulation rapture that will occur on Rosh Hashanah. Jesus fulfilled the four spring Jewish festivals with His First Coming on the day of the festival. He died on Passover. He was buried on Unlevened Bread. He rose on First Fruits. He gave us the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. It makes perfect sense that He will fulfill the fall festivals on the day of the festival as well, with the Rapture on Rosh Hashanah, His Second Coming on Yom Kippur, and the Millennial Kingdom beginning on Tabernacles.
Another theme of Rosh Hashanah is the Jewish wedding ceremony.
I may be wrong about the Rapture occurring on Rosh Hashanah. If it occurs on any other day, I will be happy to admit that I was wrong. I don't understand why so many people refuse to admit that their views on when the Tribulation began are wrong despite mounting evidence against them. If the Tribulation began in 2008 or 2009, where are the two witnesses preaching in Jerusalem or the 144,000 Jewish evangelists? Where is the war, famine, and pestilence killing over one billion people? I thought that surely, once their mid-tribulation date passed, they would admit that they were mistaken. When was the Jewish temple desecrated by the Antichrist? When did the Antichrist declare himself God? When were the two witnesses murdered and resurrected? When did many in Israel flee to Petra?
I strongly recommend this video by Scott Clarke (http://www.youtube.com/eternalrhythmflow) titled "The Most Logical RAPTURE Theory on YouTube, PERIOD!!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW17ZP0s ... 98&index=4).
a tetrad in 2014-2015 - In the last 2000 years, there have only been seven tetrads that fell on Jewish festivals. A tetrad is two lunar eclipses (blood red moons) in consecutive years. In 2014 and 2015, lunar eclipses occur on Passover and Tabernacles. The last two Jewish tetrads occurred in 1967-68 (when Israel gained control of Jerusalem) and 1949-1950 (right after Israel was reborn). It is reasonable to expect that something major will happen to Israel in the very near future. The next tetrad after the one in 2014-2015 will not occur for 500 years.
a Revelation 12 sign in September, 2017.
I believe that the Rapture will be pretribulation because:
1. Seven years in heaven coincides with the seven days in the wedding chamber in the Jewish wedding ceremony.
2. Why would Jesus allow his bride to be beaten up right before He takes her to the wedding?
3. The Tribulation is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:24-27) and the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:3-7). It is for the Jews, not the church.
4. Isaiah 26:20 promises that we can hide until indignation runs its course.
5. Jesus promises that we can escape all of these things (Luke 21:36).
6. Jesus promises to keep us from the hour of testing (Revelation 3:10).
7. Paul describes the Rapture as "the blessed hope" (Titus 2:13). Who hopes for tribulation?
8. Paul says that the Rapture should comfort us (1 Thessalonians 4:18).
9. Christians have always suffered persecution but in the past, they had to persevere so that they could maintain the church for the future. This no longer applies at the Rapture which occurs at the end of the Church Age.
10. The Rapture could not be post-tribulation because, if so, there would be no believers left in human bodies to populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom.
dan13l wrote:I guess I should just give up
Just to clarify since you brought it up,dan13l wrote:FFF alluded to this, but didn't spell it out.
James wrote:Doctrine of Imminence as taught by Chuck Missler
Scottie explains the current prophetic signs of the end of the church age! ( Scotty will not commit to the year just the Rosh Hashana )
REVEALED!! 3 AMAZING Reasons for the Prophetic Blood Moon Tetrads!
memo: Astrology is Satan's counter fit Astronomy !!!
separate the two...
also; this guy believes it's is Rosh Hashana 2014
discernment disclosure subject to change !
Think about this possibility: What if the whole new nation of Israel in the Middle East were made up by a Satanic world power in order to trick the Christians? Most of the "Jews" that arrived at this new nation (Israel, 1948) came from an area between Persia and Russia, and were converted to Judaism in relatively modern times.
The Beloved = David
Saviour = Moshe
He will Join = Levi
He will redeem = Yigal
Golden Day = Golda
He will laugh = Yitzak
And Comfort = Menachem
He has heard = Shiman
The Son of His right hand = Benjamin
I will be Praised = Ehud (Barak)
Jerusalem – Lion of God = Ariel - (Sharon means Forest – Futile Land)
I will be Praised = Ehud (Olmert)
Son of His right hand = Benjamin - (Netanyahu - Yahweh has given)
If you ADD BENJAMIN NETANYAHUS FULL NAME
The Sentence READS.
The beloved Saviour, He will Join, He will redeem, Golden Day, He will Laugh and comfort, He has heard. The Son of His right hand I will be praised, Jerusalem – (Lion of God) I will Praised. THE SON OF HIS RIGHT HAND, ”YHWH HAS GIVEN”
"In THAT day I will restore DAVID’S fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,
I think it is really interesting that the VERY FIRST Prime Minister of Israel’s name was DAVID!
Also in Genesis
Joseph is a picture type of Jesus and Joseph does not REVEAL himself until the brothers BRING BENJAMIN WITH THEM. In other words The Son of His Right Hand (whom Jesus is) with them. They had to recognize their error or doing away with Joseph and then recognise that he was in fact the Son of the Fathers right hand. The older brother’s being a picture of the patriarchs, Benjamin a picture of the brothers at a later time.
Now Benjamin Netanyahu the present Prime minister is in power and His name means The Son of His Right Hand, YHWH has given.
Today in Israel many are beginning to understand who Jesus is.
Isaiah 62:5 as a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they will never be silent day or night. You who call on the LORD, give yourselves no rest, and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth.
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