joelstrumpet

Hello,

I'm new here. I discovered a website about Joel's book about a year ago and have been blown away about the anti-parallels of the 2 faiths.

To my topic...
This black stone seems very freaky to me. I just learned about it. It's suppose to be a heavenly stone(''fallen star" or meteorite) sent to paradise which fell at Adam's feet, who supposedly built the first kaaba. It also supposedly was discovered by Abraham and Ishmael and used in erecting the destroyed kaaba that Adam made. I think also that at one time the kaaba was destroyed(one of many) around the time of Muhammad. The kaaba was then rebuilt and four elders carried the black stone using a cloth,each one held at one the four corners. And for some reason, Muhammad( a young man at the time) was chosen to be the one to actually touch the stone and set it in the newly built kaaba. This was before he received the "revelation". Muhammad also kissed the stone. It is also a tradition for muslims to kiss the stone when they go to Mecca. The black stone is said to be the one thing that has survived since the first kaaba that Adam made. Weird!

What is it with this black stone? Also, why is it necessary for muslims to come in contact with it by kissing it? Seems very strange to me.
I just thought I would raise another talking point.

Hi Levite03,

Welcome glad to see you around. Yes weird isn't it! When you track the history of the black stone it leads back to ancient moon goddess worship. I don't have my notes in front of me but it was probably Isthar or one of her manifestations throughout time. The black stone and the circling of the kaaba can be traced to ancient middle eastern moon god worship. Satan has used paganism throughout history to lead God's people astray. Allah is believed by many to be the ancient middle eastern moon god that Muhammad's tribe worshipped. Interesting topic glad you brought it up.

Peace,
Seeker

I read a book by (actually and edited account of his writings) Zwemer who was a missionary to Islam about 100 years ago. One of the points that Zwemer goes into in detail is the prolific roots of animism within Islam. Anywhere Islam as prospered, the roots of animism have been present and despite the Islamis doctrines, the daily practice of animism in those countries has never been 'eradicated' in favor of Islam. It's changed a bit here and there but the daily practices with roots in animism have not gone away or been transformed.

I think this 'rock worship' is a good example of that. It's the fruit of the rebellion after the flood that has spread and never been redeemed. All the more reason to view this as an angle of prayer focus. I wonder how Muslims 'with a good heart' (apologists) view this? How can this not be considered to be an idol? One source I read called the 'god' of the obelisk 'al Lah' but I haven't been able to confirm that independently.

There is a tradition where one of Muhammad's companions saw Muhammad bow and kiss the rock. Therefore there is a tradition by him where he esentially says that he is not sure why they do it, but because he saw Muhammad kiss the rock, he does it. Most Muslims will quote this tradition when you ask them why Muslims kiss the rock. My question is if they ever spray the thing with Lysol after Hajj and ten million people kiss it.

Joel wrote:My question is if they ever spray the thing with Lysol after Hajj and ten million people kiss it.

Joe Dirt could have used that advice, Joel. I wonder if there is a connection between these rocks?

Bottom line is Mohamed was very flexible, and borrowed (or was supernaturally deceived to adapt) from the numerous pagan god worship in the Arabian Peninsula at the time. He also borrowed heavily from what he had apparently heard from the Torah (Jewish tribes were numerous there before he killed them off). The chief of the pagan gods was "Allah", who was a moon god/godess. It is then more than a bit ironic that the Muslims borrowed Constantinople's crescent moon symbol when the Ottomans over ran Constantinople.

You may be interested to know that the Hebrew word for 'ascend" used In Isaiah's blasphemous speech he attributes to Satan is "alah." So the Hebrew word which describes the essence of Satan's sin ifs essentially the same word for the Muslim moon god.

"You men of Ephesus, what man is there who doesn't know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great goddess Artemis, and of the image which fell down from Zeus?"

Acts 19:35

Artemis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Artemis later became identified with Selene, a Titaness who was a Greek moon goddess, and she was sometimes depicted with a crescent moon above her head.

What is interesting about the Stone of Omar, is that the worship of Cybele had a black stone which fell out of the heavens as a focal point.
This worship being centered at Pergamos was moved in around 200BC to Rome.
The excesses of the Cult of Cybele were so extreme even the Romans frowned on their practices.
As Paul said "We did things we cannot even mention" this certainly comes under that umbrella.

In around 400AD Rome renovated the Vatican which means Hill of Divination (no wonder why the Roman Catholic Church continues to be centred at the Vatican.)
The stone exsisted then but between then and now the stone dissapeared, there is no trace of it.

Quite coincidentally the size of this stone is similar to the one now found at Mecca.

Did the Vatican have a hand in the creation of Islam. I believe so.

If you look at the pictures of the Kaaba at the corner where the shrine is located it is shrouded in a hood of Silver which looks terribly like a female sex organ. Just do a search and you will pull up pictures of it.

And why would that be surprising since Allah (originally Allat which is the feminine form of the word) is the Moon goddess made masculine by Muhammad.
This is why the moon is on the top of Mosques and on some flags of Islamic Nations.
What is interesting is that the sign of the Cross is the corresponding symbol of the Sun god, namely Baal, and the numerous other names he posseses.

I personaly detest the use of symbols as a mean to define my faith as they are always corrupted to serve the Mystery religions.

I really appreciate El Gallos input regarding the Hebrew word for ascend.
I am a student of hebrew and certainly am determined to find out more behind this. Thanks for the possible connection.

I don't be on this forum very much. I've done some research on Turkey for over a year now and its interesting that not only does Turkey have sacred relics from Mecca such as the door and locks of the Kaaba, Muhammad's holy mantle and his standard, soil from his tomb, some of his hairs off his beard, one of his teeth, some of Muhammad's swords and bows and even his footprint - all at Topkapi Palace but I've discovered that that some of the pieces from the Black Stone of the Kaaba at Mecca could have found their way to Istanbul


In search of the Black Stone of the Kaaba
Hajar al Aswad an adventure through Istanbul


by ted Brattstrom

Having been made aware of the supposed presence of a piece of the Black Stone - Hajar al Aswad in Istanbul by a member of the Meteorite List, I decided that one of my goals would be to find it! A quick web search led to the implication that there were 3 sites where pieces of the suspected meteorite might be seen.

1 - the tomb of Suleyman at the Sulemaniye mosque

2 - the Mihrab of the Blue Mosque (Sultanhamet Camii)

3 - in a small mosque called Sokollu Mehmet Pasa Mosque


pictures of the stones can be viewed here
http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blacks ... -aswad.htm