joelstrumpet

I am really intrigued by the idea that the Antichrist will be Muslim. It made a lot of sense but I was talking to a friend who used to be a Missionary in Jordan and he said he didn't think it was possible because there is a lot of division amongst Muslims and are too divided to work together to take over the world.

I asked him wouldn't this 12 imam? guy take care of that and he said many muslim groups don't even believe in him, some debate something about 7 or 12 Caliphs? (Hope this makes more sense to you than to me, I'm just trying to remember what he told me.) And most muslims are more nominal then the Catholic church. He found it hard to believe one group would be convinced that any leader would have power over them with such disunity.

He did say that perhaps in a hundred or so years, things might change, he just didn't see it possible now. He basically didn't think the picture painted was as neat a package as would appear on the surface.

How do you respond to that kind of an argument. I do trust my friend because he was a missionary to Muslims and reads Arabic (or whatever).


Thanks in advance -- first post.

WallDoctor

WallDoctor

Your friend is right if we are looking for a second advent in the next two to seven years but the timeframe for the second advent is more likely to be 28 to 35 years out and the change your friend is suggesting is possible in that timeframe. A change in cultural understanding usually requires a generational descendant change before that change sweeps into prominance. In political terms it does not require as much time as we may think, just look at the volatility of political figures and parties and how a sure win can change overnight with political opinion, and defeat becomes the resulting outcome.

There will be a radical revelation soon that will change our present understanding of scripture which has been in vogue for the last 3,500 years approximately within jewish/christian circles. God will soon allow His saints a better understanding of what has been hidden from us which will turn a lot of our preconceived ideas on their head.

In Genesis 15:16 God prophetised the secular return of Abraham's descendants in 1948 and the dominate reigious iniquity at that time within that region and the main people group involved in that iniquity. But the most present day prophecy books have a different view to this one and are wrong in what they state.

Shalom

Jay

That is reassuring to know that we are still several years out. I have 4 kids under 9. I would like them to all be adults before the storms arrive. Will we see a continued strengthening then amongst the Muslim world? And I heard one person say that it's mostly the Middle East where these things will take place and America will probably be marginalized as a world power but also might not be taken over. Is this wishful thinking or should we assume that the entire world will be taken over by Muslims? And what about China?

I went and looked up Genesis 15:16---this is where God tells Abraham that he will bring Israel out of Egypt in Exodus. I'm not sure the connection with 1948. I understand the concept of near/far prophecies but I still don't see how it's connected?

What did you mean by a radical revelation?


Thanks for replying.

WallDoctor

Walldoctor

It is good that you have gone and looked at the scripture. The verse has two parts parts to it that are linked. First check out to see if the iniquity of the Amorites is completed yet because that is the timeframe for the first part of Gen 15:16, the return of the Israelites to the promised land.

The Iniquity of the Amorites was not complete at the time of the Israelites return to the promised land after their time in Egypt and their 40 year journey in the desert. The Amorites lived in and around the Promised Land during the time of Joshua and they were not all destroyed as God had instructed Isreal to do on their entry. In fact they were still living in Israel during the time of King David and they still exist as a people group today. Their religion is now Islam but back during the time of Joshua, they worshipped the moon god "Allah" Today the Muslims's iniquity against the God of Creation is reaching up to heaven where they are denying God's Plans and purpose for Israel.

1948 was the sectular return of the israelite people without assistance from God. God will become involved when they repent of their sins. This return in 1948 was during the fourth age/generation/1000 year period of the existance of Israel.

May I recommend that your do some further research to validate or otherwise my statement in my posts above.

Shalom

Jay

I see what you are saying ... That makes a lot of sense. So does this mean that Genesis 15 was not meant to for the time of Exodus/Moses at all? Or that it really was meant to be understood as a near and far prophecy? Problem either way is it's hard to convince someone who is unwilling to consider the possibility because it doesn't seem like a clear cut proof. But if it was, I guess there wouldn't be so many different views.

I will read up more on the other questions. thanks.

Walldoctor

WallDoctor

Notice the structure of the following verses.

Gen 15:13-16
(a) Then the Lord said to Abram, "Know of a surety that your descendants will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years; but I will bring judgment on the nation which they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.

(b) As for yourself, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age.

(c) And they shall come back here in the fourth generation; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."

The first section (a) deals with the time the Israelites are in egypt.
The second section (b) is specific to Abraham and his future. And
The third section (c) deals with a prophecy that is a far off in time and has less details than section (a).

The Jewish Biblical Scholars even in Moses' time tried to link the two sections (a) and (c) as section (c) indicates that the Israelites will be forced from the land for a period of time and they did not necessarily want that scenerio to befall them. They also changed God's prophecy in Exodus 20:4-6 from a long term event to s short term event. They also ignored God's prophecy to Jacob: -

Geneses 28:13-15: - And behold, the Lord stood above it and said, "I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your descendants; and your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and by you and your descendants shall all the families of the earth bless themselves. Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done that of which I have spoken to you."

It is interesting to consider these prophesies and what they all mean.

Shalom

Jay

Thanks for your reply Jay. I hope you don't mind but I copy/pasted it into an Email to a couple of friends of mine. I really want to bounce it off a few people to see what they think. Multitude of counselors right?

The more I read about this view, the more it really resonates as truth.

Thanks for your patience.

WallDoctor

I will give you another point to ponder. You possibly know which people groups make up the five segments of the statue in Daniel 2 but how do you fit Jeremiah 50 39 and Isaiah 13:20 into that time frame when both of these prophetic verses are referring to a 2,000 year period, give or take a few years when Babylon did not exist as it had been devastated and it was desolate during this time period.

The rub today is that we have seen within our own lifetime the last two segments of that statue. and the fourth segment is not the Roman Empire.

Shalom

Jay