joelstrumpet

I have been having an ongoing debate with myself, and asking for some revelation through prayer. The question is still not resolved within me and I need it to be in light of what the future (maybe near) holds for followers of the Messiah Jesus.
I need to resolve what the Lord Jesus expects of me on the issue of resistance. Let me say upfront that I AM resolved to obey Him on the issue.
Let me explain.....
Thou shalt not Murder. I understand without question.
Also, the intent of the heart of a person prior to their action. I understand without question.
Will not deny Christ or His Gospel upon threat of death. I understand without question.

What I need to know is
What about upon threat of survival for survivals sake? Not spiritual persectution. Am I okay to kill?
What if in defense of a brother's life (again, not spiritual persecution)
Matthew 5:21-22 I understand that the Lord is talking about the heart, and the intent of the heart.
Matthew 5: 38-48 is what I do not understand. Jesus says not to resist evil. I understand that I am not to engage or entertain or taunt evil, but to avoid evil. When am I spiritually right to fight, if ever?
I need to know before the time or situation is upon me.

Any and all understanding, comments, insights are welcome.
Thanks

I am so glad to see someone start this discussion. I have had this subject on my mind heavily lately. Although I don't have the answers for you it's great to know others have this concern and want some input. I hope there are many responses!

I hope there are many responses too, c.alt.
Thank you for your honesty on this topic. I will pray for you to be given the revelation as well as for myself.
God Bless.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

We are required to provide for our families, and safety is a provision, is it not?

Thank you agrace.

When I read 1 Timothy 5:8 in context, it feels to me like the verse and the word provision is speaking about finances, food, shelter, supplies, etc.

I am going to really pray for discernment on this verse. I want it to mean safety, and maybe it does.

God Bless

I can appreciate what you are saying about the context; however, I believe safety in its most literal sense can certainly be inferred because food and shelter and clothing also provide safety - just as you would protect a family member from the harsh elements of weather, or protect their health with medical care and proper food, so should you also protect family members from violent suffering at the hands of another.

In fact, there are all sorts of violence in the world, and what kind of God would we serve if He required that we protect our families from all but that which is inflicted upon us via another human being? It simply makes no sense to me that God might expect me to keep my kids safe from anything that would harm them - EXCEPT violence at the hands of a human embodiment of evil - especially considering that kind of violence might arguably be the very most damaging to their hearts, minds and lives.

In my opinion, to stand there while evil triumphs is nothing more than a passive form of evil. It is tacit agreement. Leviticus 19:16 in the KJV says,

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.

My favorite translation renders it as follows -

Lev 19:16 " 'Do not go around spreading slander among your people, but also don't stand idly by when your neighbor's life is at stake; I am Adonai.

Can't get plainer than that.

Evil men will have their way, especially in this world. I have seen evil men in action and have carried out my duty to stop them. Unfortunetly my wife before I knew her, was attacked and brutally treated when she was younger. Should we resist these? Yes! in my case my job was to dectect and supress violations of the law and bring bad guys to jail. In my wife's case the small village she was in took to arms and killed these men. Justice was done evil men paid the price for their actions.

But now, as we approach a time when Christ may soon appear and judge. I think we need to define tribulation in the bibilcal sense. He told us we SHALL face tribulation in this world. As terrible as some of these things are Is it sickness, diease, financial burdens, sin, lose of relationships, living in a hut, losing your mansion,, left wing right wing politics, being attacked, robbed or raped? Do not unbelievers face the same consequnces of sin in life? We are told the world be eating drinking and giving in mariage, things will be just like in the days of Noe the 'normallcy' of this world will continue right up until the time Yeshua returns. What makes us different from them, what is this tribualtion we SHALL face Jesus warned us of?

Christ repeatedly warns us that we SHALL face tribualtion but the tribualtion He was talikng about is what we shall face on account of our witness for Christ. The world hates you for it, they will imprison you for it, beat you for it, and of kill you on account of your tesimoney and witness for Christ. If they come after you for your belief in Gods word and your obedience to it what will your reaction be? Who do we have as an example on how to behave when that time comes?

Trust in Him to deliver you, know and keep His promise and do not fear what man shall do unto you.

So what should your biblical reaction be? Will it be like Christ, or like the world, a soldier of fortune carrying a banner into battle killing them all in His name?

Should you hole up in a cave behind a computer with a load of beans and ammo? Not if you were called to preach the gospel and when you do you then will face the tribualtion Christ was speaking of.


oops Im rambling again

I found another one, which goes along with your post, David -

Pro 24:10 If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small.
11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

In other words

Pro 24:10 If you slack off on a day of distress, your strength is small indeed.
11 Yes, rescue those being dragged off to death — won't you save those about to be killed?
12 If you say, "We knew nothing about it," won't he who weighs hearts discern it? Yes, he who guards you will know it and repay each one as his deeds deserve.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was in the Garden, and the Roman soldiers came for Him to arrest Him. Peter came to the Lord's defense with weapon drawn.
My Lord said in Matthew 26
52Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

55In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.

52Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

That was the law back in those days just as in certain places in the United States today. The men that came to take Jesus were under orders and doing what was required of them. Peter took a sword and wacked some poor souls ear off. It was a crime then just as it is today especially against officials sent by those in authority. By doing so he placed himself in violation the law. Yeshua was in verse 52 warning him of the consequences of his actions which would have lead to the death penalty.

If Yeshua had wanted, He could have stopped it. What a wonderful example of His power. Yeshua therefore, knowing all the things that were happening to him, went forth, and said to them, "Who are you looking for?" They answered him, "Yeshua of Natzeret." Yeshua said to them, "I AM." Yehudah also, who betrayed him, was standing with them. When therefore he said to them, "I AM," they went backward, and fell to the ground. (John 18:4,5,6 Hebrew Names Version)

I've been giving this a lot of deep thought for awhile now. My first impulse is to 'step up like a man' and want to lash out. Problem with that is that it's motivated by fear...soulish fear driven by lack of trust in Him. That's how it plays out in my mind at present. It's one more example of ME wanting to do for myself rather than relying on Him for everything.

That being said, I think the important thing is what is in our hearts. There were places of refuge prescribed for people who killed someone but not out of murderous intent. As long as they were within those cities of refuge, they were regarded as safe; once they got out of those designated places, the story changes.

It's the 'muttering in our heart' part that seems to rile the Lord. Willfully wanting to take anothers' life with the attitude of 'bring it on' defiance. When I do pray about it, I ask Him that I'm never in a position that I must take another person's life to protect myself or loved ones. It is not my desire because I know how He values life. AND, as a community leader and 'father' to many, it may very well come to the point that I may have to.

I think we will see Hell unleashed in worldly people that have truly been 'taken' with murder, rape and viciousness that we cannot imagine. I will do whatever it takes to defend my family and those that I am responsible for but I'll be certain to pray about it first (now and then).