joelstrumpet

Here is some proof from the scriptures. It trumps your Ireneasus.

I am sure they understood it the way I do because they understood that the "sorrows" are those things that happen at the end before the birth of the new earth...and that is WHY Luke said "But before these things" meaning before the sorrows begin these other things will happen. And the early church understood it the way I do or they wouldn't have quickly fled when they saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem...heeding Jesus' words to THEM, they fled and saved their lives.

So why are you teaching something that is contrary to what Luke says about the sorrows (birthpangs)? Seems to me that that should be a no, no in your book.

The way I understand it is that the sorrows is the birth pangs.

Norma,

The way you read the passage has Jesus returning before the sorrows.

That is what I said

So why are you teaching something that is contrary to what Luke says about the sorrows (birth pangs)? Seems to me that that should be a no, no in your book.

Depends on what Bible you are using as to whether it is translated as birth pangs or sorrows. Same thing

The way you read the passage has Jesus returning before the sorrows.

Lol! You are cracking me up. Are you now telling me how I interprete it? No dear I do not have the birthpangs after Jesus has returned. I have them after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. You know that is why they were told to flee because it's destruction was about to come. and also after the Jews were taken captive into the nations until the time of the Gentile is complete (that covers a long period of time before the birthpangs even begin)

Then where do you draw the line on what comes "before these things" and what comes after?

The text draws the line when all three accounts are read as one. I have told you this before. (hint) And it is my bed time so will get to it tomorrow.

In Hm
Norma

Norma, there you go with your cryptic hints. Forget it lady, if you can't take the time to show us, then it is not worth understanding.

Hey Lady I have been ill for a week and when it is time to go to sleep then I am not staying up just to argue with you. So start acting like a Christian and get a hold on that little temper of yours.

I just thought it was funny that when I read my post I had said the same words as the Lord said so I added the hint part. Thought maybe you would recognize it and understand without my having to tell you about it again.

Then where do you draw the line on what comes "before these things" and what comes after?

The sorrows or birthpangs (meaning those things that would happen like labor pains getting closer together and more intence until the birth) which allowed for Luke to interpret the meaning by saying, But before these things. And now we need to know when they will start according to the text.


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.


Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.



Jesus said he had already told them about the False Christs. So we go back and find when he said it.

He bagan the discourse with this information about the false Christs.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.


Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Or as Luke said, "But before these things". So we know they have to fit back into the order of events before the Lord returns.

This means the first thing we will see that will tell us we are about to enter the time of the birthpangs is that there will be many false Christs (Messiahs). Followed by the birthpangs

Following these birthpangs will be the Sun turning like sackclothe and moon red, etc. the same as in the 6th seal. Mishael showed how the sorrows/birthpangs are like the first 5 seals followed by the same sigs in the sun and moon. So the same order of events is being repeated in the Book of Revelation.


So between Jesus answering their question about when the temple will be torn down not one stone upon another followed by the Jews being taken captive into the nations until the time of the gentile is complete (70AD) and His return in the end days...the sorrows/labor pains would take place.

In simple terms...when the Lord finished answering the first question about the temple then He once again began telling them about the end days.

This makes the "immediately after the tribulation of those days" to mean immediately after the birthpangs (which in itself is a time of tribulation) Then the sun will be dark, etc. etc. Then you will see me coming in the clouds in great glory.

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Just as it is seen in the book of Revelation.

Norma,

I am done here. There is no need to continue this game you are playing. I am not a child to be treated like one, and you remind me of a women I once knew who was cruel, prideful, and knew nothing, yet proclaimed she knew it all.

And your reaction to my post is not acting childish???

You asked a question and I answered it this morning. It makes it look like you are trying to avoid discussing the answer I gave. And yes you do show your temper quite a bit on here. I figure I have I right to go to bed at 11:00 and answer the next day without you making snide remarks.

Looking into scripture is never a game with me. I will ignore the rest of your speech, to put it nicely, without comment because once again it is your temper doing the talking.

In Him
Norma

Norma,

I said I was done here. Insult all you want. Last night instead of telling me you were tired and would like to go to bed, you evaded my question with a snide comment. Then you edit to make it look like I am throwing a tantrum. Last night I finally realized what you are trying to force with your interpretation. However, my objections to them remain and will remain in effect until the time you effectively address them from a textual view.

Address them, because I have had several PM's telling me your interpration is falling short of convincing anyone.

Last night instead of telling me you were tired and would like to go to bed, you evaded my question with a snide comment.

If you take offence to my saying the below post

The text draws the line when all three accounts are read as one. I have told you this before. (hint) And it is my bed time so will get to it tomorrow.

Then you are way to sensitive. It was enough to stay up till 11:00 talking with you since I was tired and am fighting off an illness. You call that evading your question? I got a bright and early this morning and answered your question with a long post.

I can't say I am upset that you are done, because you are verbally abusive in a good many of your posts to me and I really don't need that in my life.

So be done with it.

God bless
In Him
Norma

Saying I am verbally abusive to you is a false statement. I have not abused you at all. If you feel my comments are an attack on you then you need to examine your conscience to see if what I am saying hits home. And if they do then you need to repent. Do not put on me what your conscience is trying to tell you.

I have to go, late tonight, around 2:30 EST I will outline your beliefs regarding these passages, then I will outline my objections to them. Is this acceptable to you?

you remind me of a women I once knew who was cruel, prideful, and knew nothing, yet proclaimed she knew it all.

Norma, I did answer, you just didn't like my answer, stop with the false witness.

As usual you will bludgeon to death anyone that dare disagree with your interpretation.

False statement? Maybe you don't know what verbal abuse is.
These are probably opinions that should have been kept to yourself.

Do not put on me what your conscience is trying to tell you.

My conscience is clear.

I thought you were done?

And this is typical of the way you have treated me. Which has not been very nice either. Do you want to get this behind us, or do you want to leave it as is?

Norma, you bait and switch on me all the time. This is a very frustrating practice that you don't do on purpose. You ask a question we answer then you refuse to answer ours. You totally ignore our objections. Yet you demand that we toe the lie with you. My mother was like that, I still bear the scars from it today. I refuse to deal with the emotional abuse from people who do the kinds of things you have.

You go first, then when I answer you castigate me for my answers. You call this CHRISTIAN?

So you were just making it up when you said Jesus answered their question about the Herod Temple? I figured you were.

I didn't expect either you or Donna to answer the question. And you didn't dissapoint. Mishael is the only one that cares enough about the scripture's wording to answer it. I admire her for that. Even if she doesn't agree in the end.

What do you call this type of post? Praise one so as to demean the other? Is this very Christian?

Maybe you could cut and paste them for me so I can see where I have been verbally abusive to you.


Leave it as is. You haven't even made comment on my post this morning. I don't mean your opinion on my belief but comment on the text itself and how it fits together.

Like if Luke said "but before these things" Then of course the birthpangs fit back into the order later on in the discourse, so your answer would have been your opinion on where this takes place from the text (using all three accounts). But that did not come. So let's just leave it as it is. what's the point of going on?

God bless
In Him
Norma

So you were just making it up when you said Jesus answered their question about the Herod Temple? I figured you were.

First you said Jesus answered the question the apostles had about the temple being destroyed and then you said He didn't. I figured you were saying it for some reason I didn't understand, but not because you believed it. Because then you would have shown me the text where he had answered them. I don't think this is not being nice on my part. Or emotionally cruel to you. It was a question to you?

I didn't expect either you or Donna to answer the question. And you didn't dissapoint. Mishael is the only one that cares enough about the scripture's wording to answer it. I admire her for that. Even if she doesn't agree in the end.

This was true. Niether of you answered my direct question with text because the only thing the Lord said to answer their question about when the temple would be left without one stone upon another was to show text concerning the temple and the destruction of it when the city is destroyed...but Mishael did. I admire her for doing that. Where is the emotional abuse in this?

What do you call this type of post? Praise one so as to demean the other? Is this very Christian?

Well, as you said, you aren't children in that I have to keep everything equal and fair. Mishael did an excelent post of the text involved. I am a retired teacher. Just as an example; I wouldn't have given Mishael an A for doing a good post and you and Socks an A for not answering the question with the text I had asked be in the responce.

I don't play bait and switch. I am talking about a very serious subject and take it seriously.

If you look back at the posts you will see that I do answer your questions. Perhaps you don't understand what I am saying but I am answering them. I think that is why Mishael tried to help out by explaining the order of how I see the Discourse. But it didn't help. Would have been nice if it had.

Here is why I think we should leave it as is.

You say that it isn't where the skin hits the pavement when it comes to the text showing where Jesus answered their questions about when these things (when the building would be left not one stone upon another) would happen. But it is. It determins what a large part of the discourse is leading up to.

Luke does say that the sorrows come after the next things Jesus tells about, by saying but before these things. And yet you have no interest in discovering where the sorrows actually do fit back into the order of things. I say you have no interest because you asked me to explain and I did explain again in my morning post to you...and you showed no interest.

Both of those things tell us what is past and what is future in this prophecy. It isn't a hidden thing. Luke is very open about it and so are the other two (if we were Jews and understood their sayings better). And yet I have a feeling most Christians would rather eat bugs than answer these two questions for themselves.

Why? Is it because they have a theory already that they feel answers all their questions? I used to believe the same thing (that is why you don't have to explain your understanding of this to me. I believed the same) But then along came these two things, I listed above, to rock my boat. I kept digging until I understood how He answered their questions and kept looking until I saw how the sorrows fit back into the order of events leading up to the return of Christ.

I don't think anyone on this forum wants to answer these questions for themselves. Heaven knows I have done all I can to bring them out into the open so that they can be examined.

You want to disprove the text showing where Jesus answered their question about the temple with other text that you believe proves that even the resurrection of the dead at the return of Christ must take place in one generation......but the only way to show that Jesus didnt' answer their question about the temple would have to be done by showing how He did answer their question and have it NOT end up being the only other thing He said about the Temple (A of D) and the destruction of the city.

But see, these are what you have not been able to do since we began this thread. And I have no reason to believe you suddenly will want to know the answer to these things.

So, like you, I am also done with this thread (sigh). You all will try to find the answer to these two things when the time is right cuz in time they will nag at you. If you find text showing how He answered their question about when the temple would be destroyed that doesn't have to do with the A of D, or find a different place that the sorrows fit back into the events then let me know cuz I would love to discuss it.


God bless
In Him
Norma

Norma, I only have a few minute, but I want to say something. I do not care if you are a retired school teacher. Do you think that gives you the right to treat us like errant children? Just WHO do you think you are? Some sort of Authority Figure that you feel vindicated to address us in such a demeaning manner? You say "you first" like a child then chide us for not answering the way you want it answered. Again, HOW DARE YOU TREAT ME IN THIS MANNER.

I am not done with this. I repent of my earlier statement. I will SEE it through.

Later tonight, when I get back I will layout YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE DISCOURSE in Luke. And when YOU HAVE AGREED THAT I HAVE THE layout CORRECT, PROVE ONCE AND FOR ALL your interpretation is from the PITS OF Hell because it makes Paul into a FALSE TEACHER.

When I am finished, I will DEMAND you answer my question, and I will not relent until you HAVE Answered it.

Norma, I only have a few minute, but I want to say something. I do not care if you are a retired school teacher. Do you think that gives you the right to treat us like errant children? Just WHO do you think you are? Some sort of Authority Figure that you feel vindicated to address us in such a demeaning manner? You say "you first" like a child then chide us for not answering the way you want it answered. Again, HOW DARE YOU TREAT ME IN THIS MANNER.

Oh good gravey. I said I was a retired teacher so that I could use the example about answering questions. What do I care about you caring if I was a teacher. You make everything into what it is not. First off I was not adressing an "us" I was adressing you. And I am beginning to wonder what your real problem is.

I am not done with this. I repent of my earlier statement. I will SEE it through.

Well I am done with it.

Later tonight, when I get back I will layout YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE DISCOURSE in Luke. And when YOU HAVE AGREED THAT I HAVE THE layout CORRECT, PROVE ONCE AND FOR ALL your interpretation is from the PITS OF Hell because it makes Paul into a FALSE TEACHER.

That would be a waist of time since I have said repeatedly that all three accounts need to be read as one. not Luke alone, nor Matthew alone, nor Mark alone, to understand this order. God gave three witnesses to this not just one.


And may I point out just for the record that saying my interpretation is from the pit of hell is called being virablly abusive.

In my opinion Paul is not a false teacher. He was speaking according to God's purpose.

When I am finished, I will DEMAND you answer my question, and I will not relent until you HAVE Answered it.

Well, the problem is...I already answered you in my post this morning.

I will repost so you won't be demanding that I answer this same question in the future.

You asked;
Then where do you draw the line on what comes "before these things" and what comes after?

The sorrows or birthpangs (meaning those things that would happen like labor pains getting closer together and more intence until the birth) which allowed for Luke to interpret the meaning by saying, But before these things. And now we need to know when they will start according to the text.


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.



Jesus said he had already told them about the False Christs. So we go back and find when he said it.

He bagan the discourse with this information about the false Christs.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.


Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
Or as Luke said, "But before these things". So we know they have to fit back into the order of events before the Lord returns.

This means the first thing we will see that will tell us we are about to enter the time of the birthpangs is that there will be many false Christs (Messiahs). Followed by the birthpangs

Following these birthpangs will be the Sun turning like sackclothe and moon red, etc. the same as in the 6th seal. Mishael showed how the sorrows/birthpangs are like the first 5 seals followed by the same sigs in the sun and moon. So the same order of events is being repeated in the Book of Revelation.


So between Jesus answering their question about when the temple will be torn down not one stone upon another followed by the Jews being taken captive into the nations until the time of the gentile is complete (70AD) and His return in the end days...the sorrows/labor pains would take place.

In the simplest terms...when the Lord finished answering the first question about the temple then He once again began telling them about the end days.

This makes the "immediately after the tribulation of those days" to mean immediately after the birthpangs (which in itself is a time of tribulation) Then the sun will be dark, etc. etc. Then you will see me coming in the clouds in great glory.

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Just as it is seen in the book of Revelation.

Nothing more to say from my end.

Norma,

I am back and will do what I said I would, but first I just want to say. Goodness, girl, now attacking ideas is verbal abuse? Sense when? Attacking ideas is what debate is all about. And sense this is the discussion and debate portion of the board then all ideas are subject to verbal abuse.
"If you can't take the heat then, may I kindly suggest, get out of the kitchen."

2nd of all, you are a mind reader and know what my question is before I ask it? Putting the cart before the horse, arn't we?

I said I would do 2 things.

1) Give an outline of HOW YOU interpret Luke's time line.

2) Prove that your interpretation either makes Paul into a false teacher or it is from the pits of hell.

and I said if you are only going to use Luke then don't bother.

So don't bother.

Norma,

You can't stop me.

So, why bother? I said I was going to do, and I will unless I fall over dead before it gets done.

Great just don't expect an answer other then the text I already showed in my last post showing how I interprete the Olivet Discourse. So if you are showing how I interpret it then it would have to match what I posted or it wouldn't be my interpretation would it? It would be your half baked interpretation of what you think I bleieve.

Just another waist of time.

But I will probably get a good laugh out of what you think I think. as per usual.

Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign [will there be] when these things shall come to pass?
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end [is] not by and by.
Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luk 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Luk 21:14 Settle [it] therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Luk 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

**********************************************

The key here is to always keep in mind that Luke's question to Jesus is being answered in a straightforward way about the signs to look for when the current temple will be destroyed.


Luke's question is this: Luk 21:7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign [will there be] when these things shall come to pass?

Jesus' answer is long and complicated, because it deals with not just the destruction of the current temple, but beyond to the time of his return. Where Matthew and Mark line up it is to be assumed that Luke's timeline takes precedence
over any apparent inconsistency. These inconsistencies are not really there, if one carefully looks at them through the eyes of Luke's timeline. So, here is the timeline.

Luke starts by listing things we commonly refer to as birth pangs or the time of sorrows. Kingdom against kingdom, nation against nation, famine, pestilences, and earthquakes.

However, in Luke 12 it says that before these birth pangs several things will happen culminating with the "end of the times of the gentiles"

When the time of the gentiles is over then the birth pangs take over till the time when Jesus returns. Basically before and throughout the "time of the gentiles" the apostles and their followers will be called to become witnesses and martyrs for Christ.

Also prior to "the time of the gentiles", Daniel's AOD takes place which causes Jerusalem and the temple to be destroyed. The time to watch for the AOD to take place is when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies. When the AOD takes place the armies destroy Jerusalem and the city will be trodden down until the "time of the gentiles" is over.

At this point it is assumed that the birth pangs will start and the rest of the 2nd coming can then take place. Here is where the "birth pangs start", and continue to get worse through the signs in the sun, moon and the stars until they see the "sign of the son of man" and Jesus returns.

Now I will attempt to prove that Paul has to be a false teacher in light of the AOD taking place prior to AD 70.

Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha was the "false high priest", who upon entering the Holy of Holies became "the man of sin, the son of perdition" as Paul called him in 2 Thes 2.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


******************************


Paul is telling the Thessalonians about this because somebody told them that the ends times had already happened. So he is reassuring them that this "day" can't happen until this "man of sin" sits in the temple at Jerusalem declaring himself to be God. Which we all know is the AOD spoken of by the prophet Daniel. Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha was this "false high priest" that caused the temple in Jerusalem and Jerusalem itself to be laid desolate. The only thing that confuses me is that Paul also asserts that this "man of sin" "the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" Unless I do not know something, I would imagine that this man is already dead.

So, my question becomes, Norma, HOW CAN JESUS CONSUME WITH THE SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH, AND DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING, Phannias, the son of Samuel, of the village Aphtha. whom one supposes is already dead. If this can't happen then Paul is obviously a liar and false teacher. If he is so wrong about this, what else did he get wrong?

Okay Donna

It is only fair to give you this answer.

Was Jesus a false prophet? And therefore the apostles and Paul also false prophets and the early church taught wrongly concerning the return of Jesus in their day?

Is the belief that Jesus taught of His soon return..... from the pit of hell or from the seat of God?

The answer is that it is from the seat of God. For it is God that, for His purpose, did not tell the angels in heaven, nor Jesus, when the resurrection of the dead at the Lord's return would take place. No one knew the day nor the hour of the Lord's return, not even the Lord, only the Father knows. Jesus taught accordingly.

Therefore Jesus taught the 12 that He would return soon. As it should be.

In suit the 12 and Paul also taught the early Christians to expect Jesus to return during their lifetime. Is this a false teaching? No It was by the design of God that every generation, including that first generation, believe that Jesus would return in their lifetime. And they have.

Paul said to the Thessalonians in his first letter to them

1Th 5:1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

He told the Philippians
Phl 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand.

He told the Hebrews
Hbr 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Hbr 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
Hbr 10:37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.



What about the others. Did they also teach that Jesus would return in their generation?

James
Jam 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.

Jam 5:8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Jam 5:9 Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.


John
1Jo 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the {spirit} of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Peter
1Pe 1:20 For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you

1Pe 4:7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober {spirit} for the purpose of prayer.


And these are only some of the examples.

There is no question that the early church was taught and believed that they were living in the end times and the Lord would return very soon.

Should we fault them for this? NO.

No one knows the day of the resurrection (return of the Lord) not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, ONLY THE FATHER IN HEAVEN.

For this reason it is the design of the Father that Jesus teach of His soon return and therefore the Apostles believe this with all their hearts and teach accordingly.

The preterits use these scripture to teach falsely that the day of the Lord has passed. Which is wrong.

So I ask again.. Is this from the pit of hell that they taught them to expect the Lord in their lifetime?

No. It is from the seat of God.

Are you able to take the scripture word for word and use it to strengthen your faith or do you prefer to gloss things over and pretend that the Apostles didn't teach that they were living in the end times and that Jesus would destroy the man of sin at His early return.

I choose the former because I know it was the design of God that every believer, in every generation, believe that the Lord would return in His lifetime.

A false prophet? No. A faithful servant doing what the Heavenly Father ordained Him to do? Yes

I trust the Lord in all things.

In Him
Norma