joelstrumpet

it's " boy" as in "oh boy"


You have too many contrdictions in you understanding to go about lecturing anyone.

Let's just talk about one here. You say that the time, times and half time is 3 1/2 years or 1260 days and begins with the setting up of the abomintation in verse 31 and ends with the resurrection of the dead at the end of the chapter.

AND yet in the very next words of the Lord He tells you it is 1290 + 45 days from the seting up of the Abomination, and the assumed, resurrection of the dead at the end of the 1335 days.

So the least amount of time a time, times and a half time can mean is 1335 days. NOT 3 1/2 years.

Now that is glaring contridiction and yet you readily accept it because it fits neatly into the nice little package of your understanding of the end days, and you don't even see that this is forcing a square peg into a round hole becuase you WANT it to fit what you believe.

You, like myself, believe that the word of God is perfect. The diffference between us is that I believe it is perfect in it's original language, but causes some misunderstandings when translated into English. This is because we don't always have words that convey the same meanings as the original. The tranlaters had to make choices sometimes because we don't have words with the same exact meanings as the Jews did, nor the Greeks. The words the translators use can through off our understanding of things when it comes to prophecy.

For example the word translated as days, as in 1335 days (Yom). If we were reading this in Hebrew we wouldn't be able to say what God's intent was for the word Yom was here. Because what determins the meaning of it to mean days or years is "what the intent of the writer is" Well in english we don't have a word that means both days and years. So the translators had to decide for us. They chose "days" I choose "years"

And another example is the word desolate. It can mean I am totally desolated by your statements. meaning I am appalled at your behavior. Or it can mean something is left desolate, as in left bare, not one tree left standing or not one building.

Of course the translators and God Himself, and of course Daniel knew that in chapter 11 and 12 that word is used with the meaning of "appalled" because of the tense used for the word. Not destruction. Just desecration/pollutting. But the average reader reading it in english can't tell the difference in this word. Of course it wouldn't be a problem if it was being read in Hebrew.

However in Matt 24 Jesus is speaking of the complete desolation of Jerusalem and it's temple, as it is explained in Luke as when you see this army surrounding Jerusalem know that it's destruction is at hand. They aren't just going to be "appalled" by an abomination being set up on the Temple fortress.

Now the problem is that the English readers just equate the phrase "abomination of desolation" in Daniel 11 to the abomination of desolation in Matt 24. Because the English translators chose to use the same phrase for both. But we are supposed to know that they are different events because of what is told to us in the rest of the text surrounding the word. one is speaking of complete destruction and one is speaking of a desecration, with no talk of destruction.

So as long as you are accepting square pegs shoved into round holes concerning these end times events, then your lectures don't amount to much. You need to take a second look at your own understanding of these things and stop accepting the neat little package that is full of square pegs shoved into round holes. Because this is just the tip of the iceburge of your misunderstandings concerning what is coming. Now I am not asking you to believe the way I do about what is coming, but would hope that you to take notice of the things you believe that contrdict the text.

In Him
Norma

I'll put my money on the translators who've been in agreement for the last two thousand years. Norma, I'm really not trying to be rude here, but you have an issue with spelling correctly in English, how are you going to do a proper Hebrew/English translation?

I wasn't lecturing anyone by the way. I was merely stating that to me anyways, all scripture is God breathed and inspired by him. You've said in the past that Paul was wrong in regards to this verse in 2 Thessalonians 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Well either this bit of scripture (like all the rest) is inspired by God and therefore right, and you're wrong, or else anything can be changed including John 1:1 as I mentioned earlier. Scripture cannot be changed to suit your whims.

Obviously you're getting worked up about this, so let's just choose to disagree again. Peace

I am dyslexic but not dumb. Common mistake people make about dyslexics. Youll have to put up with my spelling because I don't find a spell checker on here. You should care more about the glaring contradictions that you are revealing rather than judging my intellegence by my spelling.

I would say clean up your own contradictions in the text first. Then we can talk further about these things. And I am also not being rude. Get the abominations striaght, and the time, times and half time in order with the 1335 and those in order with the numbers in Revelation... and also spend some time concidering the Hebrew for the words because you are not going the right direction in these things.

You think because you put a text that speaks of an abomination that it then refers to all the other places that refer to an abomination. That isn't the case.

In Him
Norma

Sorry, I'm not buying it. The only contradictions I seem to have is when it contradicts your theory.

When Daniel mentions the A of D and when Jesus mentions it, they both have it tied into Christ's second coming. That's the glaring contradiction you need to concern yourself with. When did the resurrection happen, in AD 70 or 622 AD? Your puzzle doesn't have all the pieces Norma.

Let's just talk about THIS ONE
. You say that the time, times and half time is 3 1/2 years or 1260 days and begins with the setting up of the abomintation in verse 31 and ends with the resurrection of the dead at the end of the chapter.

AND yet in the very next words of the Lord He tells you it is 1290 + 45 days from the seting up of the Abomination, and the assumed, resurrection of the dead at the end of the 1335 days.

So the least amount of time a time, times and a half time can mean is 1335 days. NOT 3 1/2 years.

Now that is glaring contridiction and yet you readily accept it because it fits neatly into the nice little package of your understanding of the end days, and you don't even see that this is forcing a square peg into a round hole becuase you WANT it to fit what you believe.

dO YOU HAVE AN EXPLAINATION FOR THIS?

I don't have a problem with saying that at all, I think you're the only one who finds a contradiction in it Norma. 1290 days divided by 365 = 3.53 years. Times, time and half a time. 0.53/1 = x/12, x = 6.36 or six months and 10 days. Or a half a time, why is that so hard to understand? Blessed is the one who waits 45 more days, because that is when the resurrection happens.

But lets try and look at it through your theory with all it's contradictions and bible rearranging ok? You say the regular sacrifice was abolished in 632 AD, even though there wasn't a regular sacrifice at that time.

Daniel 12:11"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

God gave us a space of time, a countdown if you will from when the sacrifice is stopped to when the a of d is set up. So from that we should be able to see what the abomination of desolation was according to your theory. If the regular sacrifice was abolished in 632 AD by (I'm not sure what, the first Caliph I believe you said?) add 1290 days to that and yes we do arrive at 1922. Logic would assume then that since there are 1290 days between the sacrifice being abolished and the a of d being set up that the British Mandate would therefore be the a of d. That's sketchy at best. God foretold of his people returning home to Israel, how could anything helping them to return home be an abomination? Especially since it was foretold in scripture. Sorry Norma, that's way too convoluted and contradictory for me.

Let's look at what Jesus told us about the abomination of desolation:

Matthew 24:15"Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17"Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18"Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
22"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Well he says THE a of d, and he doesn't even give poor Antiochus any recognition at all. But he tells them in Judea to flee to the mountains. When did they flee, after the British Mandate? Immediately after that, Christ returns:

29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it's light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
31"And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

The a of d experience will culminate with the resurrection, Daniel also talks about this in chapter 12:

1"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Well I'll share my theory, and I don't have to change the order or meaning of a single word to get it!

The Antichrist makes a treaty with Israel for seven years, allowing them to resume the daily sacrifices. In the middle of it he breaks the covenant and abolishes the daily sacrifice. 1290 days (not years) later, he declares himself God, even setting himself up in God's temple (the a of d) and declares that he is to be worshiped. 45 days after that he meets his end at Jesus Christ's triumphant return.

I don't have a problem with saying that at all, I think you're the only one who finds a contradiction in it Norma. 1290 days divided by 365 = 3.53 years. Times, time and half a time. 0.53/1 = x/12, x = 6.36 or six months and 10 days. Or a half a time, why is that so hard to understand? Blessed is the one who waits 45 more days, because that is when the resurrection happens.

Yep you don't even see what's wrong with that.

You are saying two things.
the time Between the setting up of the abomination and the resurrection is 1335 days.

Before you said that the time between the setting up of the abomination and the resurrection is a time, times and half time.

So how does a time, times and half time equal 1335 days? Please give the amount of days in a "time" then x 3 plus a half. So I can see how you made it be 1335 days in a time, times and half time.

There can only be one length of time between when the Abomination is set up and the day of resurrection. Not two lengths of time. one including the 45 days and one not including the 45 days.


I'll tackel the rest of your post after I get a real answer to this one.

In Him
Norma

Are you serious? I think you're just doing this to try to rile me. Why do you do that? If you can't even take what I say in context do you think I'm going to trust you to translate the bible for me? Be serious now. If you are dyslexic it's obviously going to affect the way you read the bible too, get somebody to read it out loud for you and it'll sound completely different from the way you seem to read it.

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

There is going to be 1290 days between the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the time that the a of d is set up. How can I make this clearer? I don't think it's possible to dumb it down any further than that. Not 1335 days, not 45 days but 1290. It says it right there in Daniel. Or is that verse wrong too now? And there's the time, times and half a time or 3.5 years. After the a of d is set up, it's 45 days till Christ's return.

It seems you are taking it out of order.
It would have to be 1290 till the abomination is set up followed by 45 days. Then you can add the 3 1/2 years after that. or do you just change the order to fit your senerio?

Dan 12:11-12 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

notice the times, time and half time isn't wedged in between 1290 days and the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days? The people just continue to live 45 more days and become blessed.

As far as the problems with these numbers.

1290 days plus a times, time and a half time of 1260 days plus 45 days that make up 7 years? 2595 days When there are no more than 2556.75 days in 7 years. just a mere 38.25 days off.

1290 and 45 or 1335 days isn't even mentioned in Revelation. Just 1260 and 42 moons (months as per new moon to new moon)

I am not trying to rile you. I am going by what the text says.

And you are being a jerk about my dyslexia. So stop it. Try to remember that Albert Enstien was also a dyslexic. It doesn't effect intelligency. Just spelling.

In Him
Norma

Sorry, I didn't mean to be a jerk, but I was wondering why you take things out of context all the time. That's a good explanation! Seriously, for some reason just recently you said that I didn't think the antichrist would be muslim and I couldn't see where at all you got that from. There's been other things like that as well. It's just curious, made me wonder if you were even reading what I'd said at all or just making up what you think I said. And it would also explain how you can read things like "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken" and think it means the exact opposite of what it says. Hey I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to make sense of our discussions. I see you're using the KJV and that's fine, I know people get up in arms when you suggest the NIV, but seriously, it's way easier to read and understand.

It would have to be 1290 till the abomination is set up followed by 45 days. Then you can add the 3 1/2 years after that. or do you just change the order to fit your senerio?

Again.......why? The antichrist makes a deal with Israel for 7 years, in the middle he breaks it, that means that the sacrifice is abolished in the middle. That is the start of the 1290 days. The angel says "times, time and half a time" in verse 7 and then gives a more specific explanation of what those times are in verses 11 and 12. I know you have a problem with it not being exact and down to the very second of 3.5 years but I don't see a problem with it. It works out to 3.53 years. If someone told you they had been away for 3 and a half years only it was 3 years, six months and ten days, would you say they lied?

notice the times, time and half time isn't wedged in between 1290 days and the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days? The people just continue to live 45 more days and become blessed.

There isn't two periods, they run concurrent. Meaning Day one of the 1335 period is the same as the 1290 period. And yeah they become blessed by being united with Jesus Christ!

Seriously, for some reason just recently you said that I didn't think the antichrist would be muslim and I couldn't see where at all you got that from

Here was my response

Yes I believe he and his revived empire will be Muslim....but since you said we can't agree on who the 8th head /empire was I thought maybe you changed your thinking.

You are the one that said we will never agree as to the 8th head/kingdom was. I thought we previously agreed it was going to be muslim. Then you say we will never agree as to who the last king will be, meaning it wouldn't be a revived muslim empire.

Maybe you don't always phrase things right either.

And if you are fully reading my posts...then I find your responces to be some what off the wall or dismissive at the least. Which causes me to think it is a waist of time speaking with you about these things.

You can't seem to actually answer my questions.

You don't acknowledge that you leave the 7th head out of the time-line prophecy of Daniel 11, and instead say it jumps from the Grecian empire, ending in verse 30, and jump straight to the revived empire in the end days saying it begins in verse 31.

Again.......why? The antichrist makes a deal with Israel for 7 years, in the middle he breaks it, that means that the sacrifice is abolished in the middle. That is the start of the 1290 days. The angel says "times, time and half a time" in verse 7 and then gives a more specific explanation of what those times are in verses 11 and 12. I know you have a problem with it not being exact and down to the very second of 3.5 years but I don't see a problem with it. It works out to 3.53 years. If someone told you they had been away for 3 and a half years only it was 3 years, six months and ten days, would you say they lied?

The standard senerio is that he will make an 7 year deal with Israel
they build the temple and start sacrificing.
half way through the 7 year agreement he breaks it by stoping the sacrifices and stands in the Holy Place claiming he is God.

Now this means these two things take place at the same time. Abolishes the sacrifices and sets up himself as the abomination of Desolation at the same time (in the middle of the week.)

You said:

There is going to be 1290 days between the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the time that the a of d is set up. How can I make this clearer? I don't think it's possible to dumb it down any further than that.

Which means you believe that of the 7 years he will stop the sacrifices in the middle of the 7 but will setup the abomination of desolation at the end of the 7 years. Which means the 7 is up. Can't add any more time to this. But you do. You add 6 more months until the resurrection of the dead.

Not 1335 days, not 45 days but 1290. It says it right there in Daniel. Or is that verse wrong too now? And there's the time, times and half a time or 3.5 years. After the a of d is set up, it's 45 days till Christ's return.

So you are saying that the time, times and half time is 1290 days long?

That is why I asked you if the 1335 days (1290+45) was the same time frame as the Time, times and half time.

It say that the time, times and half time ends with the resurrection of the dead, which means it would have to include the 45 days. The full 1335 days not just 1290.


What this means is that in your senerio the first half of seven years (1278 days =3 1/2 years) passes. Then he stops the sacrifices. Then 1290 years later. (already 18 days over a true 3 1/2 years) he sets up the abomination. Then there will be another 45 days and then the resurrection of the dead.

Do you see a flaw in this? I do. This prophecy says it will be 490 years till it is complete. 70 7's.

It was given so that people would be able to calculate the very day the Lord would appear. And He came to be baptized on that very day.
I don't think we can now say that it doesn't matter if we add extra months to the last week (last 7 years) just because we want it to fit a certain senerio.


You say this is no big deal. But these are times set by God and they are exact. It is exactly 49 years x 7 which is 10 Jubalee years to the day.

As an example.....Would you say it would be no big deal for the Jews to celebrat the Jubalee year 6 months and 10 days late?

It would be a very big deal.

Your times don't work out. No mater how much "you dumb it down" for me.

These are two different abominations that take place in Israel at two different times.

Jesus is referring to Dan 9 not Dan 11:31. He is speaking of a complete destruction of the city and the Temple, as it is explained in Dan 9...not just a desecration of the city and temple as it is in Dan 11.

In Him
Norma

Once again Norma this is pointless. Why do you and I keep doing this? Now you're just rearranging my words to make it say what you want it to. The bible doesn't stand a chance.

I will point out one thing though, and I'll even explain it so you can understand it. I've noticed a lot of people make this mistake and I even used to assume this myself.

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

From the time...to when the abomination is set up, there will be 1290 days. From the time that I go to work and I eat supper is 8 hours. The 1290 days is what takes place between the two events, not after.

regards...

I didn't rearrange the order you put the numbers in, So no reason for you to not acknoledge that you are adding time to the 7 years.

What does that mean to your theory now that you realize that the 1290 days is the time between the abolishing of the daily sacrifice and the setting up of the abomination?

This way you are interperating it isn't something new to me. So doesn't change anything because that isn't the way I interperate it.

yeah I kinda figured

I doubt that you will be able to let this sink in but I will give it a try.

In verse 31 it say that the sacrifices will be abolished and the abomination set up. This of course means that Jerusalem and probably all Israel is under the control of the king of the North.

But at some point the king of the north looses control of Jerusalem. We know this because at the time of the end days the king of the North overflows many countries and even enters the glorious land. The Glorious land is Israel.

Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many [countries] shall be overthrown:

If he was already standing in the holy place declaring himself to be God in the sense that you take this to mean (as per Dan 9) then how is it that in the end days he has to re-enter the glorious land?

How did he loose control over the glorious land in just 1290 short days and have to come enter it from the North again in the end days?


The answer to that is that the word "yom" in Hebrew means days or years.

1290 yom. If we were hebrew and only reading this in a hebrew bible then it would not be determined whether God meant days in these verses or if He meant years.

Not until we read the rest of Daniel 11 and agreed that the king of the North looses control of Jerusalem because it is said that he has to come again with his armies and re-enter the glorious land while overtaking many countries.

This will not happen within days only but will happen over many many years, in fact 1290 years.

History now tells us that this did happen. That from the year that the Muslims began conquering Israel until the time they lost control over the Israel (the glorious land) would be 1290 years. (ending when the Jews were given back their homeland in 1922) In other words at the end of the 1290 years the king of the North looses control over the glorious land.

In the end days the king of the south comes against the king of the North. And as a result he king of the North will go out to conquer the middle east once again. Notice the king of the North is NOT in control of Israel at this time. He will even enter the glorious land of Israel, again. He wins agianst the Jews or he wouldn't be able to do the next thing it says he will do..... He will set up his palace between the Holy Mountain and the sea, and there is where he will meet his end.


In Him
Norma

Sorry I've been fairly busy. My work trailer was stolen. Almost every day we all see something that makes us say: Come quickly Lord!

Thought I should answer some of your questions Norma, I know we're not going to agree but here goes nothing!

Daniels 70th week, I agree has to be an exact period of time.

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

Once again, we differ because I think it should be an exact fulfillment. Transgression against Israel and Jerusalem hasn't stopped, there is still sin, and John wrote Revelation in 96 AD so prophecy was not sealed up. You yourself claim to have had visions Norma so obviously that hasn't finished either.

We disagree about where it started, so our ending point is different as well.

26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.

Messiah's death after 69 sevens. Now on to the antichrist,

7 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

It's interesting that you put up the argument that my theory doesn't quite fit the last 7 years, because as I recall according to your theory, you don't even have a use for the last 3 and a half years. Anyways, the text says "In the middle of the seven". I don't think that the antichrist is going to be sitting there counting down to the exact last millisecond to make sure he breaks the covenant perfectly in the middle. The "middle" of the seven could even be the middle year, but we don't need that much. 2555 days in 7 years, (I'm not going to worry about leap days) - 1335=1220=3 years 4 months 2 days. Easily falling within the "middle" of the last week. Or to put it another way, the middle of the week is Wednesday, which is when he will break the covenant.

In verse 31 it say that the sacrifices will be abolished and the abomination set up. This of course means that Jerusalem and probably all Israel is under the control of the king of the North.

It does not "of course" mean that all of Israel is under his control. It says the temple fortress:

"His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice.

Jerusalem under the control of the Palestinians again? Who woulda thunk it!

If he was already standing in the holy place declaring himself to be God in the sense that you take this to mean (as per Dan 9) then how is it that in the end days he has to re-enter the glorious land?

I believe I've just answered that one too. Also, first he says the abomination will be set up:

Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Then in chapter 12:11 the angel gives the details on the timing:

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

1290 days from the time the sacrifice is abolished until the a of d is set up.

Sorry Socks, but I don't think you addressed my question.

In Verse 31 the king of the North is in Jerusalem pollutting/desecrating not only the temple mount fortress, but also the city of Jerusalem. People say this is the AC and that he is ruling, not only Israel, but the world from Jerusalem.

So how is it that after verse 40 the King of the North has to re-enter Israel with his armies?

At what point did he loose control as AC so that he is having to invade many countries with his armies, even Israel?

In Him
Norma

I think I have addressed it Norma, but I will again.

29 "At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice.

We have to be careful about adding meaning to the text when it just doesn't call for it. It says the holy covenant and desecrate the temple fortress. Nothing about all of Israel, and not even all of Jerusalem, but it could be Jerusalem and still not all of Israel. If people think he is ruling the world from Jerusalem at this time, the text does not say that.

I should add to that...

41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand.

He could easily be in control of Jerusalem and from there invade the rest of Israel.

We have to be careful about adding meaning to the text when it just doesn't call for it.

Sorry I should have referenced according to "Rev 11" as to the beast trampling Jerusalem during this same time. We do have to put all the pieces together.

People assume it because He is supposed to make a peace agreement with Isreal. The agreement allows for the Jews to build the temple and make sacrifices. But in the middle of the week he breaks the agreement, abolishes the sacrifices and sit in the temple declaring himself God. At this point he will be ruling over the whole world, doing as he pleases. The whole world will worship the beast. So he is the supreme ruler of the world. right?

And yet after verse 40 he has to invade many countries including Israel. A person that has already become the world ruler when he set himself in the temple of God calling himself God.

From what I understand you to be saying is that he abolished the sacrifices by breaking the agreement 1290 days ealier and at the end of those 1290 days sits himself in the temple and calls himself God.

How much time does he have left to conquer the world, cause all people that won't worship him to recieve a mark or can't buy or sell? Kill christians and Jews. seems like this would all take time. but you only allow 45 more days until the day of resurrection of the dead.

And who is trampling Jerusalem for 42 months if the king of the North isn't doing it?


does not compute.

In Him
Norma

Ok, there you go, so he's in control of all of Jerusalem.

At this point he will be ruling over the whole world, doing as he pleases. The whole world will worship the beast. So he is the supreme ruler of the world. right?

I'm not sure about ruling the whole world. It says in Revelation 6:

8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

There's a fourth, which would easily be filled by muslim nations and dhimmi states like those in Europe.

How much time does he have left to conquer the world, cause all people that won't worship him to recieve a mark or can't buy or sell? Kill christians and Jews. seems like this would all take time. but you only allow 45 more days until the day of resurrection of the dead.

What do you suppose he'd be doing during the 1290 days, sitting around playing cards?

I'm not sure about ruling the whole world.

I'm just going by what the scriptures say about the beast.


Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Are you saying he sets up the abomination after the whole world is already worshiping the beast?


I believe the 4th seal represents the beast of Islam.

Good point!

I'm not sure if he will actually be ruling the whole world though. Like in your theory you state that one fourth of the earth, which I would take means "one fourth of the earth", but you say it is one fourth of the earth in Iraq. Is he going to be controlling the entire world?

Are you saying he sets up the abomination after the whole world is already worshiping the beast?

That seems to be what the text you quoted is saying isn't it? That he causes all to worship allah. I don't think he will declare himself God until the very end of it.

but you say it is one fourth of the earth in Iraq.

Nah. I think you are remembering two different things from my website and putting them together or something. as in 1/3 and 1/4.

I believe that the 4th seal is the revived Islamic empire in action. Making war on the world.

In Him
Norma

Right, my mistake, you think 1/3 of the earth means 1/3 of Iraq. So by that logic, wouldn't all of the earth mean all of Iraq?

nope. completely different thing.


I guess I should explain

The word for earth is "ge"

It has more than one meaning.

1) arable land

2) the ground, the earth as a standing place

3) the main land as opposed to the sea or water

4) the earth as a whole

a) the earth as opposed to the heavens

b) the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals

5) a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region

Once again, if we were reading this in Greek only then it would just say "ge" not earth or world or a country.

In the end, when all is said and done and the age ends, then how prophecy was fulfilled will give meaning as to how the word should have been translated into English.

So what I believe to be the case in this or that part of the prophecy is what I wrote in my web site. Just because I think it means country in one place doesn't mean that I would think it means country in all the places where the word is used. That would be illogical.


In Him
Norma